Support for Voyaging Sailors

[Dave_S]

I'm with you on the people who are undeserving.

A few years ago a house across the road was robbed and a neighbor did door to door fund raising for them. They have a nice house, cars and toys but no insurance, not my problem they lost their bet. I didn't see anyone walking around handing out money each year they saved 3k on insurance.

I gave some money, so I wasn't the street Grinch but it still annoys me years later.



As for the youtubers, I think it's great. Pay, don't pay, you still watch the video. Whatever money they get is from people fully aware and without any need to pay..... It doesn't get any more honest than that.

[a64pilot]

What I have never understood is that if the neighborhood burns down, has an earthquake, swept away by a flood etc.
Well then that is terrible the government had better come and start handing out vouchers, set up temporary housing, etc etc.
But let one man’s house burn down and it tough ***.
Why is that? He isn’t any more or less at fault or destitute whether he has company or not? Is he and his family any less deserving?

[john61ct]

I would never berate someone for asking, but also never donate if **I** feel them undeserving relative to my ability to give freely.

Nothing worse for body and soul than holding resentments.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by atlantical

there is also a lot of jealousy because people spend years working to pay off there boat, with the intention of the round the world sail when they retire, by the time they get to retirement, they are too ill to go. They don't like the type of people that just take off.

I find that view a bit odd. Older cruisers I know show only generosity and honest admiration when they come across a younger voyager on a tiny budget who “just took off”.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by cyan

I find that view a bit odd. Older cruisers I know show only generosity and honest admiration when they come across a younger voyager on a tiny budget who “just took off”.

i think atlantico was referring to the older, firmly "armchair" bound dirt based cruiser.

[Valmika]

I wont usually contribute to a go fund me request unless it is really a hardship and not the posters fault (through incompetence or pure stupidity)


I don't mind paying for content I like to watch or find valuable (boatworks today) On the cruiser end of it I will usually sponsor someone until they are up to about $1000 a week and then I will find another starter that could use the money and is sincerely trying to learn and do things right.

[LeeV]

Looking at the original post, I make the distinction between

1. sailors who advertise skills on a board/bulletin/forum in advance or during their voyage as an ongoing means of supporting themselves, vs

2. sailors who started with insufficient funds and tackled a voyage beyond their skills and means, run out of money and realize they went beyond their means, or think that crowd sourcing (insert any of the mentioned methods) is a means of reaching some goal without saving for it. (This I do not tolerate/support.) I'd love to have a Swan 50 or Gunboat 60 or Schionning 60, etc....but we'll never be able to afford it - that's life. We'll do what we can afford to do and be able to cover our costs without asking others to "give."

Tragic events are not included in #2; there are folks who suffer those on coastal cruises, world cruises, etc... who may have been qualified to go, but suffer catastrophic loss. I would certainly help them.

Just my $.02

[Wallaby]

This is not a lecture, however, I'm a retired academic so the tone may be a tad pedantic


There is a vast difference between 'begging' and generating support by using one's skills and unique situation to create something of value. In today's 'experience economy,' this 'something' is usually entertaining and educational, using a social media platform, often with merchandise to follow. Begging, by its nature, creates no value except a feeling of goodwill in the donor--again experiential. There are far more worthy places/people to give your money to than people who want to go cruising, and don't want to work for it.

There are any number of cruisers working in the entertainment/education category to pay for their travels--living off the lifestyle. As one might expect, there is a vast range of approaches and quality. One of the most popular cruising series on YouTube is Sailing SV Delos. The videos are mostly 'Playboy' entertainment, sight-seeing with a cool boat and hot bodies, yet it works for the market. Cinematography and editing leave a lot to be desired, compared to the videos of Sailing Zatara, for example.

Sailing Zatara chronicles the cruising experiences of a family of six who've never sailed before. As they learn, so does the audience. Cinematography and editing are impressive, and getting better with experience. The extra effort and talent speaks volumes. I strongly suspect their videos are luring families into the cruising lifestyle.

Generating support for voyaging sailors is a matter of finding a market, developing a 'product/service,' making it available, and getting the word out. 'Begging' is no different. The feeling of goodwill may bring support from people who value it, but it won't be sustainable. Add in a vicarious thrill that you helped someone do what you won't do, or can't do, and you may be more successful, still limited.

My advice, create a unique entertaining/educational experience, and be prepared to evolve as others imitate. Avoid more 'me-too' media. Inundating the market helps no one.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I would like to express my distaste for that trend.

I consider it the same as begging hat in hand, and should only be used by those really in dire straits "deserving" of charity.

Delivering content to supporters who contribute payment for educational or entertainment value received via Patreon is different, but I concede there can be a gray area.

That said, my disdain is reserved for the undeserving beggars,

especially the likes of those couples that ran aground in Florida and were "rescued" in the Pacific last year,

but not those contributing, feel free to give your hard-earned money away to whomever you like.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by ahun

I do it. I have Patreon, PayPalme, blog, YouTube channel whatnot. The idea is accepting payment for the content I provide. Sailing a 22 feet boat now half way around the world, in less than 2 years, I can report, that it doesn't make headlines. I have no half naked girls in the videos though, that might be the problem.

My income from the supports come to an avarge of €100 per month or so. There are extra expenses associated, and of course the work put in. Look up my stuff and decide if it is worth it.

attilavedo.wordpress.com

Had a poke around your web site and watched a few of your videos. Awesome work and you obviously spend much time and effort. Anything you make is well deserved.
I was especially impressed with the spreadsheet of costs for your trip. That's very useful information for anyone, especially those considering doing a long term trip.

[Vino the Dog]

As the OP, let me thank you all for your opinions.

I agree with the difference between begging and providing something of value to those who contribute to a crowd funding effort.

There is also a gray zone between the two which is often stereotyped as begging by those whose affluence is adequate to prevent them from experiencing economic misfortune. Many hard working people who succeeded in making enough money to retire on a boat tend to despise anyone who sold everything they own to have their adventure working their way as best they can. Not all of these people are too lazy to work. There are many reasons why someone ends up poor other than being a lazy, inferior person who turns to begging. Why should such people not have the same right to live life to the fullest as their financially secure peers do? There are also countless wealthy people who gained their security through inheritance, theft, and financial scams.

I did not start this thread to cause an argument about the rights of the poor versus the financially secure. It is aimed at those of us who are not beggars but lack financial security necessary to “retire” and pay our way out of the difficulties and costs encountered in of a voyaging lifestyle (...and yes, I am one of them). The objective is to discover which aspects of these new forms of internet based economy may provide a legitimate means of paid work through creating content of value offered to those who value that content.

Let us continue with the agreement that “begging”, fraud, and deceit is NOT legitimate and we all know that. If we can dispense with the inevitable flame wars that would result from focusing on what we don’t like and focus on what is of real value to those who participate, possibly this discussion can result in some value to all of us interested in the subject.

[john61ct]

For me, hard information, solving technical problems, helping me learn.

I hate videos except as a very brief supplement for content that can't be delivered effectively in writing.

I donate regularly to Maine Sail.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Vino the Dog

As the OP, let me thank you all for your opinions.

I agree with the difference between begging and providing something of value to those who contribute to a crowd funding effort.

There is also a gray zone between the two which is often stereotyped as begging by those whose affluence is adequate to prevent them from experiencing economic misfortune. Many hard working people who succeeded in making enough money to retire on a boat tend to despise anyone who sold everything they own to have their adventure working their way as best they can. Not all of these people are too lazy to work. There are many reasons why someone ends up poor other than being a lazy, inferior person who turns to begging. Why should such people not have the same right to live life to the fullest as their financially secure peers do? There are also countless wealthy people who gained their security through inheritance, theft, and financial scams.

I did not start this thread to cause an argument about the rights of the poor versus the financially secure. It is aimed at those of us who are not beggars but lack financial security necessary to “retire” and pay our way out of the difficulties and costs encountered in of a voyaging lifestyle (...and yes, I am one of them). The objective is to discover which aspects of these new forms of internet based economy may provide a legitimate means of paid work through creating content of value offered to those who value that content.

Let us continue with the agreement that “begging”, fraud, and deceit is NOT legitimate and we all know that. If we can dispense with the inevitable flame wars that would result from focusing on what we don’t like and focus on what is of real value to those who participate, possibly this discussion can result in some value to all of us interested in the subject.

I don't get your drift. Do you really believe those that have busted their ass for a living should distribute money such that those that haven't can have the same cruising life style? Restrict the "begging" to those that have inherited, stolen or scammed their money. Most of us have come into the world with a bare ass. Most misfortune is self created.

Do I take offense, your damn right. If someone needs a hand up no problem.

If someone wants to mooch no way. JMO I left the H out.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

... Sailing SV Delos. The videos are mostly 'Playboy' entertainment, sight-seeing with a cool boat and hot bodies, yet it works for the market. Cinematography and editing leave a lot to be desired, compared to the videos of Sailing Zatara, for example.

Seriously? I have to disagree, with a bit of a laugh. If you think of Delos as "mostly Playboy entertainment", then you must have quickly skipped to the 2% of each episode that boasts a bikini shot. Also, as a (movie) industry veteran, I promise you that Delos editing is superior to Zatara on the whole. Neither channel practices decent color correction, so the cinematography is a wash. The Zatara story is more compelling, IMO. Disclaimer- I really enjoy BOTH Delos and Zatara.

[Wallaby]

Originally Posted by cyan

Seriously? I have to disagree, with a bit of a laugh. If you think of Delos as "mostly Playboy entertainment", then you must have quickly skipped to the 2% of each episode that boasts a bikini shot. Also, as a (movie) industry veteran, I promise you that Delos editing is superior to Zatara on the whole. Neither channel practices decent color correction, so the cinematography is a wash. The Zatara story is more compelling, IMO. Disclaimer- I really enjoy BOTH Delos and Zatara.

My main point (beyond the obvious putdown of 'begging') is that there are many different target markets for experience-based media. My two examples are quite different products. Both Delos and Zatara create positive experiences/enjoyment (value) for their audiences. I think we'd both agree that '2%' is key to the Delos' market, and likely explains its much larger audience. As I said, cool boat, hot bodies. Delos speaks to certain lifestyle aspirations... need I say more.



With respect to my cinematographyand editing comments, I was considering issues of composition, visual story telling, integration of closeup and distant shots into the narrative, staging, and using nature as foil to human activity. I suspect a lot of Zatara footage ends up in the 'cutting room' folder, and they do multiple shoots to get it right. Hats off to Zatara. Yes, very compelling.