Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by pcmm

liability ONLY insurance does not require a survey. We've been insured by both Progressive (in the US) and Aviva in Canada and neither required a survey for liability only insurance. My experience has been the same for the last 25 years of ownership. ( my boats tend to be inexpensive) and I have NEVER been asked for a survey for liability only insurance. a survey for Liability only insurance isn't insuring the boat bot the operator.

pcmm, not to hijack completely, but can you tell us more about Aviva? I’m with them now, but might want to switch to liability-only. Any info or tips when going this way with them?

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

pcmm, not to hijack completely, but can you tell us more about Aviva? I’m with them now, but might want to switch to liability-only. Any info or tips when going this way with them?

Mike,

I'm using Aviva through Roberston "skippers plan" I believe it was called. I just called them up and gave them the particulars of my boat and my experience. it was really easy. I did opt for the $2m liability coverage though as there are alot of really expensive boats in my marina! last thing I would want to do is bump one of them and not have enough coverage!

[etterridge]

Originally Posted by astokel

My Canadian insurance company requires a survey every five years. My agent says it's so you can prove there is actually a boat. How would you prove your boat actually exists without a survey?

If that is the only reason, one would think that a copy of the vessel registration would suffice.

I previously sought liability only insurance in Canada and was surprised to be quoted the same price for liability only as for hull, equipment replacement insurance with a liability rider. Clearly there is no interest in selling liability only policys - at least in my part of Canada.

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by rabbi

a few more pointers to some other major players
BAVARIA Yachtversicherung, Bootsversicherung und Flugzeugversicherung
Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherung & Bootsversicherung • Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherungen
http://www.schomacker.de/
http://www.eerdmans.nl/

The german ones have reasonable policies (IIRC we pay ~120 Euro per year for 10 Mio Euro coverage). The dutch Eerdmans competes on the German market so should similar.

At least Bavaria and Wehring-Wolfes don't require a survey. The others I don't know.

I contacted Wehring-Wolfes and they don't cover US residents or US registered/documented vessels.

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by rabbi

a few more pointers to some other major players
BAVARIA Yachtversicherung, Bootsversicherung und Flugzeugversicherung
Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherung & Bootsversicherung • Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherungen
http://www.schomacker.de/
http://www.eerdmans.nl/

The german ones have reasonable policies (IIRC we pay ~120 Euro per year for 10 Mio Euro coverage). The dutch Eerdmans competes on the German market so should similar.

At least Bavaria and Wehring-Wolfes don't require a survey. The others I don't know.

I'm also Canadian looking for liability only insurance for cruising from UK to BC.

I've contacted Bavaria Insurance, they will not cover Canadians, you'd think we were diseased or something the way they react to the inquiry.

Pantaenius UK won't cover Canadians either, just sent an email to their USA office, not holding my breath, though.

Emailed Dolphin Insurance in BC but they aren't open yet.

I contacted the others and was either not offered service in English or no phone number was given. I'm tired of filling out multi-page applications detailing my boat's specs when I'm looking for liability only.

This is agrivating }:| The best part is I'm supposed to be sleeping between 16 hour work shifts...fun! At this point even being hove-to in a storm would be more relaxing, haha.

Good luck to the OP, you're probably going to need it!

I'm even considering that fake insurance policy I was offered that has bad reviews just to get the marina off my back until I can get to the boat and anchor out somewhere.

Who would have thought I'd need to twist people's arms so much to take my money...

[DumnMad]

Northernreef

[Triumphant]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Northernreef

Google these guys and make your own mind up

[Vieux_Chameau]

This holy quest for boat insurance was truly a nightmare (summary: Canadian boat by Canadian owner, but boat is located in France). Overall I would estimate I spent a solid 50 hours of full-time work on that. I did not count how many brokers I contacted but must be more than 50, including countless form filling and phone call in Canada, USA, Spain, France, UK, Monaco, India, Caribbeans, etc.... Out of all that, most had a quick way to say they are not interested (the best one being "we don't insure boat in salt water" :P ) or simply did not answer. The very few options left were:

In Canada, Dolphin insurance was the only one to offer liability only without a survey, but it is fairly expensive for what it is... 800 cad. There is ONE broker in Quebec (Osbourn & Lange)that offered me a full coverage with Lloyd but their price were kind of high and they needed a survey in English, which no french inspector were willing to do.

Northernreef (from south africa I believe?)sold trough their officer in Spain had good price but they credibility is discutable from what can be found online. Reading their whole document I can also see lot of way not to be covered.

And my relief: Pantaenius from Monaco (they also have office in UK,France and USA, but these offices could not insure me). They have been easy to talk to by phone or by email (in french, not sure if they also deal in english) and I got full coverage for very reasonable price from reputable business.


Hope this info can be useful to someone

[UNCIVILIZED]

Sometimes marinas will have lists of insurers which fit these requirements exactly. Since they get a lot of boats wanting to stay with them who don't have insurance. And if the marina turns them away, obviously they lose revenue. So... it's more than worth asking them directly, albeit discretely.

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by rabbi

a few more pointers to some other major players
BAVARIA Yachtversicherung, Bootsversicherung und Flugzeugversicherung
Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherung & Bootsversicherung • Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherungen
http://www.schomacker.de/
http://www.eerdmans.nl/

The german ones have reasonable policies (IIRC we pay ~120 Euro per year for 10 Mio Euro coverage). The dutch Eerdmans competes on the German market so should similar.

At least Bavaria and Wehring-Wolfes don't require a survey. The others I don't know.

BAVARIA does offer 3rd party liability only insurance, no survey required covering US citizens, with US flagged vessels. 6M € for personal and 6M for property damage for only 157€/year!

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by KetoNomad

I'm also Canadian looking for liability only insurance for cruising from UK to BC.

I've contacted Bavaria Insurance, they will not cover Canadians, you'd think we were diseased or something the way they react to the inquiry.

Pantaenius UK won't cover Canadians either, just sent an email to their USA office, not holding my breath, though.

Emailed Dolphin Insurance in BC but they aren't open yet.

I contacted the others and was either not offered service in English or no phone number was given. I'm tired of filling out multi-page applications detailing my boat's specs when I'm looking for liability only.

This is agrivating }:| The best part is I'm supposed to be sleeping between 16 hour work shifts...fun! At this point even being hove-to in a storm would be more relaxing, haha.

Good luck to the OP, you're probably going to need it!

I'm even considering that fake insurance policy I was offered that has bad reviews just to get the marina off my back until I can get to the boat and anchor out somewhere.

Who would have thought I'd need to twist people's arms so much to take my money...

Try Pantaenius Mallorca. It won't be as inexpensive as BAVARIA but they definitely offer 3rd party liability, with no survey required, for US citizens with US flagged boats. Maybe they'll do the same for Canadians.

[TabbyCat]

Yep, I've done the liability ONLY before and never been asked for a survey, as you say it's insurance for the operator only not the vessel, so a survey is not required......

1. Progressive does not cover liveaboard use
2. Different underwriters have varying requirements, so perhaps it would be best not to make blanket statements that seem to refer to all companies
3. "Marine P&I" (Liability) covers damages that happen to another person or their property as a result of the operation of [your] vessel. Most policies do NOT follow you if you operate another vessel; the coverage is tied to your vessel. Therefore, the underwriters are considering both your experience AND the condition of your vessel when making the decision of whether to offer you liability coverage. If your boat sinks in the marina and ends up being a salvage, that would be very costly, so naturally they want some reassurance that your vessel is reasonably sound before agreeing to cover it. Some underwriters accept photos, your word or your boating history, or the reputation of your vessel's manufacturer to verify seaworthiness, but many underwriters insist on an independent marine survey.

[DumnMad]

For Liability only (Incl salvage), its the company's reputation and acceptability to the world wide marinas that ensures the Ins co pays up.

For hull insurance it is always the skipper's fault so you are likely to be in for some 'discussion'. Personally I don't want to pay insurance to cover reckless skippers for their personal loss, but happy if my insurance helps out with the damage done to others.

Its a balancing act between 'survival of the fittest' and kindness to the less fortunate.

[TabbyCat]

For hull insurance it is always the skipper's fault so you are likely to be in for some 'discussion'...

I'm not sure where you get that idea, other than you personally had a bad experience? As with any product or service, there are good quality companies and low quality ones. I always recommend that you purchase insurance from a reputable agent and an A rated company. Anyway, it's not always the skippers fault: With Tropical storm damage, a reputable underwriter won't "Blame" or "Discuss" - they just pay the claim. If there's a collision between two boats, they might ask some questions to determine which one is at fault and whether it is worth subrogating against the other company. Even if it is the skipper's (unintentional) fault it's covered. Examples: dragging at anchor, hitting a marker, hitting a bridge, sinking, hitting submerged objects, & fire to name a few.

I don't want to pay insurance to cover reckless skippers for their personal loss, but happy if my insurance helps out with the damage done to others.

You can be the safest skipper in the world and you can't prevent someone from accidentally running into your boat. In fact, most skippers aren't reckless, but stuff happens - that's the reason to have hull insurance.