Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2017, 16:44   #16
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 3,922
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
liability ONLY insurance does not require a survey. We've been insured by both Progressive (in the US) and Aviva in Canada and neither required a survey for liability only insurance. My experience has been the same for the last 25 years of ownership. ( my boats tend to be inexpensive) and I have NEVER been asked for a survey for liability only insurance. a survey for Liability only insurance isn't insuring the boat bot the operator.
pcmm, not to hijack completely, but can you tell us more about Aviva? Im with them now, but might want to switch to liability-only. Any info or tips when going this way with them?
__________________

__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 17:47   #17
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 685
Images: 2
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
pcmm, not to hijack completely, but can you tell us more about Aviva? Im with them now, but might want to switch to liability-only. Any info or tips when going this way with them?
Mike,

I'm using Aviva through Roberston "skippers plan" I believe it was called. I just called them up and gave them the particulars of my boat and my experience. it was really easy. I did opt for the $2m liability coverage though as there are alot of really expensive boats in my marina! last thing I would want to do is bump one of them and not have enough coverage!
__________________

__________________
pcmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2017, 13:25   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sackville, New Brunswick
Boat: CAL 34-1, 1970
Posts: 23
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by astokel View Post
My Canadian insurance company requires a survey every five years. My agent says it's so you can prove there is actually a boat. How would you prove your boat actually exists without a survey?
If that is the only reason, one would think that a copy of the vessel registration would suffice.

I previously sought liability only insurance in Canada and was surprised to be quoted the same price for liability only as for hull, equipment replacement insurance with a liability rider. Clearly there is no interest in selling liability only policys - at least in my part of Canada.
__________________
etterridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2017, 07:05   #19
Registered User
 
ccannan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Boat: Alubat, OVNI 47
Posts: 186
Images: 5
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
a few more pointers to some other major players
BAVARIA Yachtversicherung, Bootsversicherung und Flugzeugversicherung
Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherung & Bootsversicherung € Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherungen
http://www.schomacker.de/
http://www.eerdmans.nl/

The german ones have reasonable policies (IIRC we pay ~120 Euro per year for 10 Mio Euro coverage). The dutch Eerdmans competes on the German market so should similar.

At least Bavaria and Wehring-Wolfes don't require a survey. The others I don't know.
I contacted Wehring-Wolfes and they don't cover US residents or US registered/documented vessels.
__________________
Chip
ccannan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2017, 02:38   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Jolly ol' England at the moment
Boat: Albin Vega
Posts: 302
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
a few more pointers to some other major players
BAVARIA Yachtversicherung, Bootsversicherung und Flugzeugversicherung
Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherung & Bootsversicherung • Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherungen
http://www.schomacker.de/
http://www.eerdmans.nl/

The german ones have reasonable policies (IIRC we pay ~120 Euro per year for 10 Mio Euro coverage). The dutch Eerdmans competes on the German market so should similar.

At least Bavaria and Wehring-Wolfes don't require a survey. The others I don't know.
I'm also Canadian looking for liability only insurance for cruising from UK to BC.

I've contacted Bavaria Insurance, they will not cover Canadians, you'd think we were diseased or something the way they react to the inquiry.

Pantaenius UK won't cover Canadians either, just sent an email to their USA office, not holding my breath, though.

Emailed Dolphin Insurance in BC but they aren't open yet.

I contacted the others and was either not offered service in English or no phone number was given. I'm tired of filling out multi-page applications detailing my boat's specs when I'm looking for liability only.

This is agrivating }:| The best part is I'm supposed to be sleeping between 16 hour work shifts...fun! At this point even being hove-to in a storm would be more relaxing, haha.

Good luck to the OP, you're probably going to need it!

I'm even considering that fake insurance policy I was offered that has bad reviews just to get the marina off my back until I can get to the boat and anchor out somewhere.

Who would have thought I'd need to twist people's arms so much to take my money...
__________________
KetoNomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2017, 02:47   #21
Registered User
 
DumnMad's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nelson NZ; boat in Brisbane
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,192
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Northernreef
__________________
DumnMad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2017, 07:50   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK and Central America
Boat: Tucker CA41 Steel 40 foot Ketch
Posts: 285
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
Google these guys and make your own mind up
__________________
Triumphant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2017, 13:44   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 4
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

This holy quest for boat insurance was truly a nightmare (summary: Canadian boat by Canadian owner, but boat is located in France). Overall I would estimate I spent a solid 50 hours of full-time work on that. I did not count how many brokers I contacted but must be more than 50, including countless form filling and phone call in Canada, USA, Spain, France, UK, Monaco, India, Caribbeans, etc.... Out of all that, most had a quick way to say they are not interested (the best one being "we don't insure boat in salt water" :P ) or simply did not answer. The very few options left were:

In Canada, Dolphin insurance was the only one to offer liability only without a survey, but it is fairly expensive for what it is... 800 cad. There is ONE broker in Quebec (Osbourn & Lange)that offered me a full coverage with Lloyd but their price were kind of high and they needed a survey in English, which no french inspector were willing to do.

Northernreef (from south africa I believe?)sold trough their officer in Spain had good price but they credibility is discutable from what can be found online. Reading their whole document I can also see lot of way not to be covered.

And my relief: Pantaenius from Monaco (they also have office in UK,France and USA, but these offices could not insure me). They have been easy to talk to by phone or by email (in french, not sure if they also deal in english) and I got full coverage for very reasonable price from reputable business.


Hope this info can be useful to someone
__________________
Vieux_Chameau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2017, 14:53   #24
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,403
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Sometimes marinas will have lists of insurers which fit these requirements exactly. Since they get a lot of boats wanting to stay with them who don't have insurance. And if the marina turns them away, obviously they lose revenue. So... it's more than worth asking them directly, albeit discretely.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2017, 15:32   #25
Registered User
 
ccannan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Boat: Alubat, OVNI 47
Posts: 186
Images: 5
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
a few more pointers to some other major players
BAVARIA Yachtversicherung, Bootsversicherung und Flugzeugversicherung
Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherung & Bootsversicherung • Wehring & Wolfes Yachtversicherungen
http://www.schomacker.de/
http://www.eerdmans.nl/

The german ones have reasonable policies (IIRC we pay ~120 Euro per year for 10 Mio Euro coverage). The dutch Eerdmans competes on the German market so should similar.

At least Bavaria and Wehring-Wolfes don't require a survey. The others I don't know.
BAVARIA does offer 3rd party liability only insurance, no survey required covering US citizens, with US flagged vessels. 6M for personal and 6M for property damage for only 157/year!
__________________
Chip
ccannan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2017, 15:37   #26
Registered User
 
ccannan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Boat: Alubat, OVNI 47
Posts: 186
Images: 5
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Originally Posted by KetoNomad View Post
I'm also Canadian looking for liability only insurance for cruising from UK to BC.

I've contacted Bavaria Insurance, they will not cover Canadians, you'd think we were diseased or something the way they react to the inquiry.

Pantaenius UK won't cover Canadians either, just sent an email to their USA office, not holding my breath, though.

Emailed Dolphin Insurance in BC but they aren't open yet.

I contacted the others and was either not offered service in English or no phone number was given. I'm tired of filling out multi-page applications detailing my boat's specs when I'm looking for liability only.

This is agrivating }:| The best part is I'm supposed to be sleeping between 16 hour work shifts...fun! At this point even being hove-to in a storm would be more relaxing, haha.

Good luck to the OP, you're probably going to need it!

I'm even considering that fake insurance policy I was offered that has bad reviews just to get the marina off my back until I can get to the boat and anchor out somewhere.

Who would have thought I'd need to twist people's arms so much to take my money...
Try Pantaenius Mallorca. It won't be as inexpensive as BAVARIA but they definitely offer 3rd party liability, with no survey required, for US citizens with US flagged boats. Maybe they'll do the same for Canadians.
__________________
Chip
ccannan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2017, 20:17   #27
CF Adviser
 
TabbyCat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: cruising in the Pacific
Boat: MaineCat Catamaran 41'
Posts: 329
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to TabbyCat
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
Yep, I've done the liability ONLY before and never been asked for a survey, as you say it's insurance for the operator only not the vessel, so a survey is not required......
1. Progressive does not cover liveaboard use
2. Different underwriters have varying requirements, so perhaps it would be best not to make blanket statements that seem to refer to all companies
3. "Marine P&I" (Liability) covers damages that happen to another person or their property as a result of the operation of [your] vessel. Most policies do NOT follow you if you operate another vessel; the coverage is tied to your vessel. Therefore, the underwriters are considering both your experience AND the condition of your vessel when making the decision of whether to offer you liability coverage. If your boat sinks in the marina and ends up being a salvage, that would be very costly, so naturally they want some reassurance that your vessel is reasonably sound before agreeing to cover it. Some underwriters accept photos, your word or your boating history, or the reputation of your vessel's manufacturer to verify seaworthiness, but many underwriters insist on an independent marine survey.
__________________
Susan
IMIS - Int'l Marine Ins Svcs
http://www.MarineInsurance.CC
TabbyCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2017, 21:06   #28
Registered User
 
DumnMad's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nelson NZ; boat in Brisbane
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,192
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

For Liability only (Incl salvage), its the company's reputation and acceptability to the world wide marinas that ensures the Ins co pays up.

For hull insurance it is always the skipper's fault so you are likely to be in for some 'discussion'. Personally I don't want to pay insurance to cover reckless skippers for their personal loss, but happy if my insurance helps out with the damage done to others.

Its a balancing act between 'survival of the fittest' and kindness to the less fortunate.
__________________
DumnMad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2017, 22:03   #29
CF Adviser
 
TabbyCat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: cruising in the Pacific
Boat: MaineCat Catamaran 41'
Posts: 329
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to TabbyCat
Re: Searching for liability insurance not requiring a survey, in mediterranean

Quote:
For hull insurance it is always the skipper's fault so you are likely to be in for some 'discussion'...
I'm not sure where you get that idea, other than you personally had a bad experience? As with any product or service, there are good quality companies and low quality ones. I always recommend that you purchase insurance from a reputable agent and an A rated company. Anyway, it's not always the skippers fault: With Tropical storm damage, a reputable underwriter won't "Blame" or "Discuss" - they just pay the claim. If there's a collision between two boats, they might ask some questions to determine which one is at fault and whether it is worth subrogating against the other company. Even if it is the skipper's (unintentional) fault it's covered. Examples: dragging at anchor, hitting a marker, hitting a bridge, sinking, hitting submerged objects, & fire to name a few.

Quote:
I don't want to pay insurance to cover reckless skippers for their personal loss, but happy if my insurance helps out with the damage done to others.
You can be the safest skipper in the world and you can't prevent someone from accidentally running into your boat. In fact, most skippers aren't reckless, but stuff happens - that's the reason to have hull insurance.
__________________

__________________
Susan
IMIS - Int'l Marine Ins Svcs
http://www.MarineInsurance.CC
TabbyCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
arc, insurance, mediterranean, survey

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No insurance, no survey - no survey, no insurance cyclepro General Sailing Forum 45 15-08-2016 06:00
Marine survey for Liability!? VinnyVincent Monohull Sailboats 39 28-04-2015 09:11
Insurance requiring the correction of survey issues 8 months after issuing a policy motaman9 Boat Ownership & Making a Living 43 09-11-2014 06:11
Australia third party only (liability) Insurance without Survey? mischief Dollars & Cents 42 22-09-2014 18:39


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.