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Old 01-04-2008, 06:55   #91
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Cooper :

In response to your message...

"Paul what kind of assumptions are you making ? "It costs a lot of money to be free" ? what on earth does that mean ? What an extraordinary value judgment. YOU may need to be near a major retail chain store but that does not mean that other people do. As to illusion, sure if you are contained within the sadly small confines of major western (and expensive) shores, difficult BUT not impossible. elsewhere things are much more difficult but a lot cheaper. Of course you wanted to be negative otherwise you would not have said it. It is not an Illusion, it is a way of life.

Ouch...why so angry ??

Tell ya what...take two happy tablets, grab a beer, sit back in your recliner & have a listen to where "that line" came from...

It's from my friend Eileen Quinn (& yes the wife & I know her & her husband David !!) the song is called..."Tomorrow I'll go Cruising" CD Baby: EILEEN QUINN: Degrees of Deviation

Apart from all that...for us, sailing away will be an ICW & coastal experience, with the occasional overnight passage down the thorny path to the Bahamas & then the Caribbean, in a comfortable boat (Beneteau 423) in about 7yrs.

I don't intend on ever trying to live on hard tac & stale bread, or to make the wife feel as though she's agreed to a nasty ordeal by going along with this "cruising idea" I came up with (thanks to Bob Bitchin) a few years ago.

For us, the comfortable income we'll have from pentions & investments will allow us to have a few wonderful years as we work on getting old & wrinkled in the best manner I can possibly imagine !!

As it's said..."If one advances in the direction of his dreams & endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with success unexpected in common hours"

This forum helps to advance the plans.
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Old 01-04-2008, 07:46   #92
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Thanks Paul, I was getting a superiority complex. Doing some math I came up with the following.
The sailing lessons and trip to Abacos to sail = 16.8 years of sailing
Buying a Cat my lovely wife would get on = 822.4 years of sailing
The good news is money we saved and investments mean we can sail for 4,931.5 years.

Now to figure out how we can live that long.

Steve
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Old 01-04-2008, 10:34   #93
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Hard to imagine anyone living in a G8 country and not having several hundred thousand dollars in the bank and some sort of retirement check coming in every month. No doubt that most of us here have a lot more than the $250K and surly few are foolish enough to have much of it in a CD.
Why is it hard to imagine someone living in a G8 country and not having several hundred thousand dollars in the bank and some sort of retirement check coming in every month? I don't.

First of all, there are a lot of people who have a dream of cruising and seeing the world who are younger than your typical retiree. Second, a lot of people reach retirement age and do not have several hundred thousand dollars in the bank. There are a lot of people who, for whatever reason, were not able to save up hundreds of thousands of dollars during their working years.

You know...the more I read posts on this forum the more I think it should be called "Caribbean Cruisers Forum: Large Expensive Cruising Boats, Affluent Cocktail-Drinking Snobbish Cruisers, and Cruising Answers That Often Are--If you're an average Joe with a dream, a small sailboat, and very little money, you're a fool."

Good god...I'm glad this website wasn't around during the Age of Exploration--Balboa, Magellan, Columbus, da Gama, and others would've probably been so demoralized they would never have gone anywhere.
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:03   #94
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Jay :

The real news of all this is (of course) that although we all trade in $$$...we all come to a point where the "time" you have left becomes more important than the chase to earn more $$$ !!

And, with this in mind...here's a good example of a family who decided to go & had a wonderful time on a fairly low-budget boat... Dave Erickson's Web Page

They got to do so many of the great things many of us just dream of...& I just love looking at all the great pictures in their website.
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:14   #95
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Originally Posted by Triton318 View Post
You know...the more I read posts on this forum the more I think it should be called "Caribbean Cruisers Forum: Large Expensive Cruising Boats, Affluent Cocktail-Drinking Snobbish Cruisers, and Cruising Answers That Often Are--If you're an average Joe with a dream, a small sailboat, and very little money, you're a fool."
I think a little unfair (not totally, but a little).....certainly plenty of Newbies to this forum who turn up with a bucket of virtual cash and some dreams - some more likely to proceed than others. But they are folks dreams nonetheless - and accordingly I tend to give 'em the benefit of the doubt a lot more than I do on some other forums I am / have been a member of .......even if I suspect in my heart many are in the land of Wishful Thinking about their means / intentions / desires or will never put in the hard work / make the sacrifices neccessary in real life.

Plenty on here from and for folk with more modest means (aka Normal?!) than the stereotypical "rich" Newbie wanting a minimum of 5 levels on their Cat (or mono!), capable of sailing at warp factor 20 around Capehorn........for weekends away in the Carib.

Just a matter of asking the right questions to elicit information of use to you and your dreams - does it really matter if an answer comes from a fella (or felleress - Sp?!) with a boat 5 times the cost of yours and with the income to match or from someone with b#gger all in the bucket?

Quote:
Good god...I'm glad this website wasn't around during the Age of Exploration--Balboa, Magellan, Columbus, da Gama, and others would've probably been so demoralized they would never have gone anywhere.
An element of truth here far too close for comfort - but IMO that is the internet in general - not just here

BTW a cool meandering thread this one
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Old 02-04-2008, 00:34   #96
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I love it when some one says "i hate to be negative...but...

" Pensioner sailors "are probably the most common and cashed up. It is very easy to make an assumption about an appropriate style of life. There are a heap of younger sailors who dont have flash boats, dont have lots of money, but do have two important things an open mind and time. I have never met anyone who is seriously cruising say gee I wish that I had worked for an extra few years. But I have met ship loads who have said, "if only I had done it earlier" to enjoy life more fully, to have strength and youth, because I wouldnt have NEEDED to spend huge amounts on "help me alongs" to counteract my failing abilities.

Dont need happy pills , do need a beer, and havnt got time for the recliner because I have nearly finished my aft cabin and I am getting excited. : )
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Old 02-04-2008, 00:55   #97
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. I have never met anyone who is seriously cruising say gee I wish that I had worked for an extra few years. : )
When I retired a month ago I was 48. I would have prefered to go earlier. My Mum would have prefered me to keep working. Thats a bit strange because my dad died while he was waiting the 6 months for mum to retire so they could go cruising.

Mum has had a lonely 20 years.

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Old 02-04-2008, 07:06   #98
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I gave myself some time before responding to the posts that followed my attempt at humor. If it was taken the wrong way or I appeared to be "snobbish" I am truly sorry. The original title to this thread and admitted by David was suppose to be somewhat unrealistic and meant to see what ways you could save money to extend your trips. My dollar a day figures were meant to express (humorously) what that was in real time. Not an attack on youth, personal spending habits, or the lack of financial planning on anyone’s part. S%$t happens; money is diverted to more pressing needs and peoples priorities change. Those of us who had the luck and foresight to travel a financial plan (granted a minority) in lue of "living the moment" shouldn't be craped on by those we probably will be supporting in their old age. Fact is Triton (who also lives in the DC area) you should pretty much know what it takes to live in the DC area. An ex military guy like you who probably has seen some of the world should recognize what the cost of living is around here. If you bought a house in the early 70's alone your net worth should exceed "several hundred thousand". Add 3 teenage kids to the formula and a boat... ya you could eat that up pretty quick. My two now adult kids tried their hardest and my wife's and daughter's wedding plans almost put me over the edge. But then s#%t happens. Maybe there should be a new sub area called "For young, minimum 500 posts, poor people who can't afford a "5 level cat (or Mono)".

"Good god...I'm glad this website wasn't around during the Age of Exploration--Balboa, Magellan, Columbus, da Gama, and others would've probably been so demoralized they would never have gone anywhere."

This kind of through me. I'm pretty sure 3 of the 4 names mentioned didn't have the personal funds to finance their trips so ended up at some rich guy’s castle with their hands out. How did this support your train of thought other than they probably were on the (today's) dollar a day plan?
"certainly plenty of Newbies to this forum who turn up with a bucket of virtual cash and some dreams - some more likely to proceed than others. But they are folks dreams nonetheless - and accordingly I tend to give 'em the benefit of the doubt"

Well thanks David, after 20 posts you got me figured out and I do appreciate the "benefit of the doubt". Thing is I'm not sure if buying a boat is the right way to go at this point. Up to this thread I've met some pretty supportive people and while down in Marsh Harbor was pleased with the friendly boaters who greeted you with a smile and "Hello" whenever your paths crossed. While on the docks a very nice lady we stopped and talked with invited us to the morning coffee gathering on the dock. I think it was the sparkle in her eyes that I was most drawn to. Since we didn't have the experience of sailing all our lives we thought the "working vacation" of taking lessons on a cat was a good idea plus we got to be on a boat we were considering would be a smart move. Now that several of you have enlightened me I see that we should have pulled a Bumfuzzel and just sailed off into the night on a "Con-Tiki".

"even if I suspect in my heart many are in the land of Wishful Thinking about their means / intentions / desires or will never put in the hard work / make the sacrifices necessary in real life."

We have a plan; based on some of your previous posts David I'm not sure if you grasp that concept. The "Land of Wishful Thinking" would have me on a 100 ft power boat with a crew from Deal or No Deal's bevy of beauties and suitcases full of the real thing. Mind you this would never fly with the wife but it's my wishful thinking. We would never put in the time over the last 2 years to learn and decide if we take this to the next level. By the way we're 1 year behind schedule do to the idiot broker who didn't follow up on several occasions (intensions). "Means" and "desire" I'll skip, you have no idea nor do I care of a stranger’s opinion on this. In addition "putting in the hard work or making the sacrifices necessary in real life" is pretty presumptuous of you. I guess if I didn't build my boat from scratch, including felling the trees along with sacrificing my first child to the water gods I'm not qualified to pursue a dream or way of life. Suffice it to say I read a lot of posts here on "how to's", I've read the travels of a number of cruisers. I've read of the guy up in Mass who spent a life building a steel boat in his back yard. Honestly I would love to travel the world but hope to be a costal cruiser. I would love to build my own boat since I'm quite handy with my hands and enjoy using them but won't try building a boat for a number of reasons. I'm not real sure as to your point of saying "make the sacrifices necessary in real life" considering my idea of a boat is a pleasure vessel unless you’re a fisherman but I'm of the opinion that sacrifices are made on important things in life. But maybe that's why I can now look at a "5 level Cat". There are a number of different types of sailors in this world. I know what I want to accomplish, I know my limits at this point. I think I know where we can be in a couple years but who knows. Life, hopes, and dreams are precious David, I think you know that.

Though my wife will insist on living a comfortable life on a boat this doesn’t mean I won’t strive to live the lifestyle of “A dollar a Day”. To this end I’m hoping to find rides this spring and summer in exchange for labor (mine not the wife) to further my sailing experience and get further training. I had posted this a while back. I’m sure there are a few poor Mega Yacht owners who will look at this offer as a means to extend their cruising life style a few more days.

Steve
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:31   #99
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Ah the fine art of dentistry... Today I was set back 2 years, and 28 days.

One of those moments when no dental insurance comes back around to "bite you." 40 minutes later you walk out with a much lighter wallet, and smelling of plastic resin. Sounds a bit like going to buy supplies for the boat.

I guess the good news is that on the dollar a day plan, theres no much room for buying sugar.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:56   #100
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<I'm of the opinion that sacrifices are made on important things in life…>

I might say it a tad differently, but in the broadest of terms who could disagree… alternatively: “sacrifices are made to help ensure the important things in one’s life…” Of course that begs the question of what one thinks is important – as I thumb through these (very informative) forums, “what is important” seems to be the general topic of discussion, whether: vessel, finish, propulsion, crew, means, direction, age – whatever…

Several decades ago I deduced a general “Y” in the working-stiff’s (those not born with a silver spoon in their mouth) continuum as being; one can work their fingers to the bone and maybe (maybe) earn enough to afford a periodic, exotic holiday, or: one can live each day like it was a minor holiday and just except the fact that brokers and hot-tips won’t be a way of life… or some variation in between… Thus I’ve owned boats, occasional two or three at a time (not always running, to be sure…); however, they’ve tended to be far closer to the Letcher and Graham category than the Dashews… One does what they feel compelled to do to get where they want to go – when they want to go… who is to say who is wrong, who is right…

How many similarly intrepid voyagers did not get written into the history books alongside Columbus, Balboa and the like – did they not have worthy goals as well… Similarly, some want to voyage the world’s oceans surrounded with all that modern technology can offer, while snuggly ensconced in the comforts and opulence of a castle; while others are trying to escape it… is either wrong?

Some years ago I lived-aboard on the DC waterfront… can’t recall which year (somewhere in the 84-89 era), but ol’man Forbes in Highlander (IV or V, the green one) tied up at the YC next-door for a few weeks… one morning I was heading off to work and the dock-guy with the sewage-barge was making his rounds pumping out folks’ boats… sitting right next to him in the push-boat (a Whaler as I recall) was a guy who almost anyone at the time would have recognized… none other the Malcolm… Apparently the guy just liked boats and anyone who had the time to talk about `em… how wrong is that…
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Old 08-04-2008, 13:06   #101
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This is a very interesting thread, the experiences I see here are so different from what i meet out sailing. It seems as if most people wait until they heve plenty of money before casting off the docklines.
THis is how I work it.
Plan a 6month to one year cruise, work out a budget for that cruise, work until I have that amount of money plus 3-4 k to transition back into work. Currently working in Annapolis, where we 'llbe for the next 9 months
I find I need between $550 and $1,000 a month to cruise and not have to worry too much about eating out or the odd night in a marina; depends on the cruising zone. The Eastern Med was far less, I think we averaged about $400 a month and lived very well, our next voyage is to the Carib, the eastern part of which will be more expensive. THe North Eastern Coast of the USA averaged about $650 a month. I take care of all major boat maintenance issues while working. The Vesssel is a Jeanneau 38 1979.
Have Radar, GPS, etc but no pressure water, no hot water, (took the space that the water heater would have used and installed extra water tankage) Use 12 volt lights just like every body else, but am about to convert to LED's to save power.
THere is no such thing as being totally self sufficient on a boat ( I live aboard/ cruise full time) aside from the large capital cost of the boat, things such a sails, rigging are very expensive, I do compromise by putting money into essential, structural components and save money on luxuries such as a water maker. This year we are upgrading the electrical system/ battery system/ adding propane instead of the old kerosene cookstove, adding fuel tankage and having the fuel injectors overhauled. I do all the work my self, and got a job in a marine hardware /loft store in order to take advantage of employee discount.
GO NOW and go with whatever you have! if the boat is not perfect go anyway!
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Old 08-04-2008, 15:29   #102
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Great to hear from you Rhosyn.

I was pondering something and am glad you popped this thread back up to the top of the list.

As far as haul out schedules go, what stops someone from slathering the bottom in a million coats (slight exaggeration) of hard bottom paint and making a practice of diving the hull once in a while? Most everyone uses ablative around here, and are on a 1.5 year haul out schedule. Could that number be pushed a little further, with a little more work? Wouldn't be so great if you have a 40 footer that drafts 8 feet of full keel, but for something small an afternoon with a snorkel might not be so bad.

Otherwise a gallon of paint and a haul out will burn up enough to run the year. I'm not quite comfortable with the thought of drying out (I spend way to much time trying to avoid that shallow stuff...) or laying along side a dock.

Maybe if I keep on hammering I'll just be able to stretch that penny around the bottom of this boat.
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:59   #103
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Zach,
nothing wrong with that at all. I use Petit Trinidad- its very yexpensive this year something approaching 300 a gallon. I find thta I get 2/3 years before recoating so over time its no more expensive, actually works out less because I haul out for shorter periods - usually just long enough to check all the below water line fittings- Many yards will do a "short haul" where the boat stays in the slings while you check then if every thing is ok they drop you back in.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:33   #104
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Have been without Internet access for a longggggggg week

Firstly can I say to Steve/Hyprdrv that my (kinda long and meandering) post was not meant as a direct response to your post - indeed I was going to directly respond to you in a similar vein, along the lines that "I would be back next Wednesday" - but I didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyprdrv View Post
The original title to this thread and admitted by David was suppose to be somewhat unrealistic and meant to see what ways you could save money to extend your trips.
You are spot on with my thinking.

Quote:
My dollar a day figures were meant to express (humorously) what that was in real time.
As I said above I took it as that - although I will admit not doing the total maths, it did seem to indicate someone who was financially sorted. And I have no problem with that, certainly not the intention on my part to "crap on" anyone over it.


Quote:
Maybe there should be a new sub area called "For young, minimum 500 posts, poor people who can't afford a "5 level cat (or Mono)".
Not sure if I qualify as "Young". I hope so This thread may be the sub area? I will however hold my hand up to a bit of exaggeration for effect with the term "5 level cat (or mono)"


Quote:
Up to this thread I've met some pretty supportive people and while down in Marsh Harbor was pleased with the friendly boaters who greeted you with a smile and "Hello" whenever your paths crossed. While on the docks a very nice lady we stopped and talked with invited us to the morning coffee gathering on the dock. I think it was the sparkle in her eyes that I was most drawn to.
I know, it's cool isn't it


Quote:
"even if I suspect in my heart many are in the land of Wishful Thinking about their means / intentions / desires or will never put in the hard work / make the sacrifices necessary in real life."

We have a plan; based on some of your previous posts David I'm not sure if you grasp that concept.
When I re-read my post I was thinking to myself "that sounds kinda familiar" But I could not be ar#ed to edit it , and besides have never been one shy in coming forward with my own f#ck ups and failings

My comment was really related to this being the internet and never knowing the true / full circumstances behind someone's plans and capabilities (including financially) and where sometimes hearing only part of a story can make things sound optimistic or unlikely, even when not.......but as I said, I accept folks dreams on here at face value - just doesn't mean I totally beleive them. It's the Internet.

Quote:
The "Land of Wishful Thinking" would have me on a 100 ft power boat with a crew from Deal or No Deal's bevy of beauties and suitcases full of the real thing. Mind you this would never fly with the wife but it's my wishful thinking.
I think it's "a wife thing"
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Old 15-04-2008, 03:58   #105
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I've been thinking

Anyway, the Dollar a Day thing - I'm gonna give it a go

Why?.........mainly for something to aim towards that is neither immediate nor in the long distant future......to keep me both occupied and motivated (bit of a deficit on that one recently ) - plus will also force me to get the boat properly shipshape (folk may have noticed I do not post a lot about my own boat - mainly outta embarrassement )......which will be useful for any future longer / more normal voyaging.


OK, their are a couple of compromises (cheats?!) involved....

1) Only going for 3 months - I am not completely mad! I reckon long enuf to learn what is working and what is not. (boat and budget wise). Plus it is a weather thing.

2) D-Day (Dollar Day?) is 17 May 2009 (see comments about boating needing some TLC )

3) My Kitty will more than allow for emergencies (or cheating!) or changing the trip into a more normal one if things get too much on a dollar a day.

4) A fair wad of cash will be spent on the boat beforehand that could otherwise be spent during the 3 months to up the budget comfortably above a Dollar a Day, including to make my life easier during this (and future?) trips.

5) I will not be voyaging far (relatively) - Throughout the Channel Islands and to the adjacent coast of France (I know the areas - and most importantly know free berthing / places to Anchor - plus easy to abort the trip from).



6) I have a good idea that I will be able to get free WIFI access at least now and again - but I may well include access to the Internet outside the dollar a day expenses in order that I can update a Blog.

7) I am thinking that I will spend a lot of time fishing - and I hope this is my main source of Bartering (and Protein?!) - Before I depart will line up some Barter freindly folk. who like fish .

8) I do have certain shoreside expenses / commitments (not a great deal - but some) that I will still need to meet during the 3 month trip which will be outside my Dollar a day budget - but I will not be allowed to use my shoreside facilities (Home / Cars / Motorbikes / Workshop / Washing Machine) etc etc.

9) The Boat will (hopefully) be well sorted at the outset - so likely that no major boat expenses will be incurred. Famous last words!

10) I will start off with a full tank of diesel (not in the Budget) but I will add the top up on my return to the budget.


A few "rules" (which I may or may not break).....

1) No "begging" or depending on the kindness of others (aka scrounging) - and no working - however, bartering will be allowed. If someone is willing to swap a couple of cans of baked beans for some fresh fish or for a meal cooked onboard then all well and good. Not too sure about bartering my manual labour for food......sounds too much like work .

2) Not sure about guests aboard who exchange food for free accomadation - or getting invited ashore for nosh - sounds a bit too cheating, but I will think about this a bit more.

3) Not allowed to return home to do my laundery / watch TV etc

4) No criminal activity But morally dubious is OK

5) Not sure about adding a "Begging Button" to my Website.......I was thinking about giving folk the option to contribute a dollar towards the following expenses of their choice:-

a) Cold Beer
b) Hot Women
c) Boring Boat Bits


So the big question is........what do I spend USD92 on??? I am thinking bags of Rice.......and maybe Multivitamins

BTW I am quite happy to fail to meet the USD1 target, (and expect to) but am interested in how close I can get / what the expenses and difficulties prove to be.



The above Berth was free (being the harbour entrance ).
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