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Old 31-03-2008, 04:29   #76
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5.6.1 Marine Plywood
Marine grades shall meet the requirements of Exterior plywood and shall be of one of the following grades: A-A, A-B, B-B, High Density Overlay, or Medium Density Overlay, all as modified in Sections 5.6.1.1 through 5.6.1.3.
5.6.1.1 Species
Only Group 1 Douglas-fir and Western Larch veneers shall be used.
5.6.1.2 Veneers
Grade A faces shall be limited to a total of nine single wood repairs in a 1220 mm by 2440 mm
(48 x 96 in) sheet, or to a proportionate number in any other size as manufactured.
All inner plies shall be B grade or better and shall be full length and width.
All wood repairs shall be bonded with an adhesive meeting the Exterior performance requirements of Section 5.7.2 and, in addition, shall be set in the panel using a technique
involving both heat and pressure.
When the inner plies consist of two or more pieces of veneer, the edges shall be straight and square, and shall not overlap.
5.6.1.3 Crossband gaps and edge splits
Neither edge of a panel shall have any crossband gap or edge split in excess of 3.2 mm (1/8 in) wide. Crossband gaps and edge splits per 2440 mm (96 in) of crossband ply shall not exceed four in number. End splits and gaps on either end of a panel shall not exceed 3.2 mm (1/8 in) in
aggregate width.
There shall be no filling of crossband gaps and edge splits.
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Old 31-03-2008, 05:32   #77
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David : I hate to be negitive....however, if you really want to live on the cheap (inexpensive) side of the world, I'd say that "boating" is not the way to go.

Yes...we can sail away from shore for a while.

Yes...we can anchor off Mr Trump's mansion & wave to his gardener while we sit under a blue tarp & sip a drink.

Yes...if we really hate the rules here, we can just "sail off" to somewhere else,

BUT....

It costs a'lot of money try'in to be free !!!

My advise is to get a small trailerable sailboat & enjoy the illusion when you can...just don't sail too far away from Walmart if your budget is restricted.

Read this...Your Passport to Adventure Travel -- Sail and Power Boat Cruising
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Old 31-03-2008, 06:01   #78
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DMy advise is to get a small trailerable sailboat & enjoy the illusion when you can...just don't sail too far away from Walmart if your budget is restricted.
Walmart ...
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Old 31-03-2008, 06:53   #79
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I do understand the necessity to place "the standards" on show. It simply proves my point. I dont , and i am actual quite certain , that other people have no way of checking the validity of those standards, when purchasing those materials.
The extraordinary LIES that the maritime retail industry perpetuates is breath taking. YES the product MAY be better in a marine situation but VALUE for DOLLARS which is after all what this whole post is about..........
CD bond ply has the same glue as marine. one face is paint grade. The other is non finished. The point of voids is that if you dont seal it moisture will intrude.
Internal voids may be important if you are building a high tech light weight, machine with the ply on the OUTSIDE.
Personally, I am not going to put so much strain on my cupboards. It dose not matter what type of timber it is, in an internal situation (within any of the available plys that I have seen)
. Marine ply needs to be sealed __its not a magic bullet but it is bloody expensive. It is way cheaper to seal lower grade ply than to not seal "marine ply" Australian, British an American grades are vastly different.....A GRADE is simply an expression of rules. who do you know that checks the timber as it is IMPORTED into your country. My local supplier of imported ply spent some time with me. He walked through the racks and pointed. "Thats crap" he said, but expensive. How long are you going to live ? Are you building a boat for NOW...that is to be able to DO IT. Again to me this is the point of the post.
It amuses me how the difference between building a house and a boat brings out such variance in attitudes.

How many "crap" house are still standing...more to do with the fact that they are "lived in". The New insistence that boats are now like cars also amuses me. We look for features, and paint jobs. We get pedantic about the most cosmetic of things. We place trust in "surveyors" .

Poor people dont. POOR PEOPLE DO.
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Old 31-03-2008, 07:03   #80
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Gord
I do understand the necessity to place "the standards" on show. It simply proves my point. I dont , and i am actual quite certain , that other people have no way of checking the validity of those standards, when purchasing those materials.
The extraordinary LIES that the maritime retail industry perpetuates is breath taking ...
Necessary? perhaps not.

Perhaps we can discuss these issues from within an informational void; but I generally find that opinions formed within a context of some knowledge base are more instructive than those formed in ignorance.

Itís more difficult to get away with lying to an informed buyer, than to the uninformed.
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Old 31-03-2008, 07:27   #81
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Granted...but again the point is within the context of the poor sailor, that regardless of the most informed, if you cant afford it then it is simply not an issue. So called standard becomes a mute point. Most often irrelevant to the poor sailor. They dont want to die. Decisions are made on a practical basis that simply revolves around NEEDS. not some internet gleamed statistical brochure. " Yeah thanks mate I know it looks really good but can you provide the spec sheet with it".... Wise is ...what wise sees...Not what wise gets from the latest issue of practical do it upyourself monthly. Packing case timber is some of the best timber available. Beautiful timber ripped out from sad countries. No spec sheets, but there for the poor sailor who is willing to "buck" the authority. Best thing DONT tell anybody. OR lie ..."I bought it from XXX timber yard.....nobody will ever know......Mind you if you are going to build a contender for the Americas cup perhaps plastic is necessary. Tell me in what "marine circumstances" is "marine ply" a better option cost for cost......
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Old 31-03-2008, 07:43   #82
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And while we are at it ......Paul what kind of assumptions are you making ? "It costs a lot of money to be free" ? what on earth does that mean ? What an extraordinary value judgment. YOU may need to be near a major retail chain store but that does not mean that other people do. As to illusion, sure if you are contained within the sadly small confines of major western (and expensive) shores, difficult BUT not impossible. elsewhere things are much more difficult but a lot cheaper. Of course you wanted to be negative otherwise you would not have said it. It is not an Illusion, it is a way of life.


maxingout help me please...
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Old 31-03-2008, 07:48   #83
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<Personally, I am not going to put so much strain on my cupboards…>

That has been my philosophy with boat upgrading and maintenance… Primarily I use exterior grade with one “A” side and stain to match my whim of the moment – and molding is almost always just straight from the off-cut bins of the local lumber-yard… Let’s face it, we’re just getting beyond the stage where some rather whiz-bang (costing) boats had formica… my little 35 year old sloop doesn’t need mysterious wood imported from the last remaining forest of exotic wood in some country whose name I can’t pronounce…

If I ever (re)build something where I have to bend the ply, I’ll probably go round up some marine just to be sure, but for essentially non-structural or lightly loaded cabinetry etc., exterior gets my vote… I did some cabin mods in the Irwin I had – and now nearly twenty years later I understand they’re still fine – Walmart stain and some sort of varnish off their shelves – can't recall, now…

Below the waterline, however, I still use name-brand marine-specific epoxy and marine paints for the exterior… although I’m certainly not above scouting around (eBay, etc...) to get someone to sell it to me well below list pricing if I can…
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Old 31-03-2008, 08:00   #84
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Originally Posted by Paul Ouellette View Post
David : I hate to be negitive....however, if you really want to live on the cheap (inexpensive) side of the world, I'd say that "boating" is not the way to go.
Negative is cool. AKA a dose of realism

I bought my current boat with no immediate plans to sail off into the WBY - but it was important to me that she was capable of doing so, just in case one day I decided to say "sod it, I'm off" - without needing a Million pounds in the Kitty as I like to plan ahead / have an escape route......but my hopes and dreams for the forseable future lay firmly shoreside - based around da Missus. The boat was way down on my list of priorities when I bought her and dropped further down the list shortly after......but enjoyable nonetheless to share in the dreams of others on this site.

Unfortunately life has a way of cr#pping all over one's hopes and dreams.........so now sans Wife, I am a bit short of Dreams at the moment.

Long ago did the running away stuff, and learnt the obvious that the only thing yer can't run away from is yerself But ironically tis how I met da Missus - we had both metaphorically long since gone over the edge of the cliff and done so in the certain knowledge that the bump at the end would not go well - but in the meantime the freefall was cool . Took a while to realise we both had one important thing in common. We'd both jumped. Unsurprisingly a somewhat interesting "courtship" and spread over many many years of highs and lows. And insanity.

Will I now try and sail away into the WBY? (for a dollar a day or not) - not this year, boat needs some TLC - which I am having trouble motivating myself over - amongst many other things. But hopefully by this time next year the boat will be sorted so it will at least be an option on the table........

Where to? and how long? and how much in the pot? Dunno - Have always been quite relaxed to make things up as I go along - not always been a good thing, but just how it is. Never had any burning ambition to do a RTW just for the sake of it (anyway done 1 by Jumbo Jet long ago). The Black Sea has an attraction for no specific reason - and plenty of interesting places between here and there. Japan has a certain fascination for me, but I suspect a dollar a day will not go far in Japan! and from the Black Sea a return to SEA enroute to Japan would be interesting albeit I have no great ambition to be anywhere. Cheap will be important, even if not litterally a dollar each day - if I set off for a 5 year voyage and came back after a year or so due to a lack of cash, I doubt it would bother me unduly. Maybe for me it will be about the travelling rather than the final destination?.......done more than my fair share of chilling out on tropical beaches over the years - not all it's cracked up to be.

Still, next year life will have bo doubt moved on...........

Mmmmmmm. Dunno where all that suddenly came from. But I'll leave it.......
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Old 31-03-2008, 20:30   #85
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David OJ...

Hang in there, relax, let it go, it takes a long time to get over losing someone so close. Hopefully you will gradually find your interest in life returns. Just don't be hard on yourself in the meantime.
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Old 31-03-2008, 21:01   #86
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not this year, boat needs some TLC - which I am having trouble motivating myself over -
Ahhh that motivation thingo! I've felt that lil sucker before. Sometimes it can be given the flick real quick! How long is it since you've got a bit of salt up the nose? Been for a good sail?
Even if the boat isnt in perfect nick can you still take it out for a bit of fun?
As well as enjoyable it might get you thinking what is the minimum TLC before the boat is ready. Then set small acheivable goals to acheive it. Dates make wonderful goals
And then go.

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Where to? and how long? and how much in the pot? Dunno
As you know it doesn't matter Just head out and see which way you go... and that ain't always the way the wind blows either

All the best

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Old 31-03-2008, 22:07   #87
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David,

Been there, man. I tell people "I traded my wife in on a boat. And I sure do like my boat." I have a hat that says "I love my boat. It takes all my money but it doesn't bitch." My ex just laughed when I show it to her.

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Maybe for me it will be about the travelling rather than the final destination?
The trip IS what I like about boating. The destination is just something to give a change of pace and make me want to move again. So I hear you. When I get ready to head out, it will just be to head out. Where doesn't matter that much. The planning part is where I also get a lot of enjoyment, which is a good thing since that's mainly what I've done so far.

-dan
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Old 01-04-2008, 02:42   #88
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Cheers Folks As I said, not sure where all that suddenly came from

Back to the boaty stuff methinks
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Old 01-04-2008, 04:18   #89
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what great posts
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Old 01-04-2008, 06:10   #90
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<Maybe for me it will be about the traveling rather than the final destination….>

Ah, that sounds like the inner-self taking… although few seem to admit to it in public… I recall years and years ago, in my offshore fishing days, one of my long-time friends and I finally came to the (rather secretive) conclusion that we really weren’t all that distressed by our general lack of fishing luck over the years, especially since we put so little effort into getting good at it, but what we really liked was just riding around in the ocean…

Have run into similar kindred spirits in my other vice – long-pavement motorcycling – it’s not about a certificate or actually getting somewhere (although those may be convenient excuses to explain the passion to the uninitiated), but rather to just be on the road – where I don’t stay in hotels or cart camping gear, just ride and catnap on the bike… similarly, in sailing, I find anchoring is something I do to accommodate guests and others – otherwise I enjoy just sailing as long as I can keep my eyes open… beachcombing in some secluded cove is certainly fun at some level, but usually pales next to a broad reach with a fresh breeze and, for the moment, nothing in front of (or behind) but the horizon…
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