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Old 19-03-2008, 19:56   #61
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Originally Posted by Zach View Post
Question:

Who all would go out without a windex or electric wind indicator? How about a paddle wheel knot meter?

I've got remnants of some of the above, but never sailed on a boat with more than one of the three functioning...

Though it would be nice to see speed over ground vs water speed on occasion! I'm not certain it'd be worth the couple hundred bucks to get everything back online.
All i've got is one of West Marine's patented metal-stick-with-a-plastic-arrow-on-the-end-which-we-charge-suckers-30-bucks-for.
No speed indicator for wind or water. I just look back and judge by the wake and like Gord said, use my ears for the wind.

I think I might have a depth sounder, but I have no readout to hook it up to, so for now, I just guess by the charts and if it's shallow enough, use the boat hook or kayak paddle or whatever happens to be on hand. If it's really shallow, I can always use the bottom of the boat to tell me how deep it is. That's always a reliable indicator.

BTW, Good job Sean. I'd probably have a hard time with that much steel(read that as I probably couldn't do it without some serious training). Still, can your wife haul up the 55# anchor and chain by hand easily? Maybe it won't be a total loss.

That Rebelcat guy is now one of my heroes. The design of the first one/5th one looks like it might make a good dinghy.
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Old 22-03-2008, 18:58   #62
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the wind on my face should tell me both wind speed and wind direction.
And the swell, sea and ripples.

If you have instruments turned on you will never learn to read your ears!
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Old 24-03-2008, 16:11   #63
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(Grin)

Well one less ugly bit of corroded aluminum on Pylasteki. And one hole glassed over.
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Old 24-03-2008, 16:33   #64
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Just chiming in:

I don't hate my land life. I work with great people, and make decent money. That being said, I'd rather be sailing. But if I have to work a couple of extra years in order to not live in absolute poverty while sailing, I'll work more. I already live on a boat and ride my bicycle to work; it's not like I'm in the coal mines over here.

Boats have limited life expectancies, and certainly their component parts do. Standing and running rigging, engine parts, zincs, sails, and fiberglass all break down over time. You might be able to live on $1/day, but it's only because someone (maybe you, maybe the person before you, etc) put a ton of cash into the initial investment of a boat and kept it up.

I suppose I just want to stand up for our land lives a bit. In all honesty, sailing a boat around the world is easily the toughest thing you can do with your time. It will stress you and beat you down harder than anything. If you're unhappy and pissed off working 9-5 in an office, you're going to be exceptionally unhappy and pissed off when your steerage fails or your engine packs up entering a busy harbor.

People who are happy with their lives right now are the same people who are happy when they're sailing. If anyone is looking for cruising to be a silver bullet of happiness, there's a rude surprise at the end of that plan.
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Old 24-03-2008, 17:02   #65
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People who are happy with their lives right now are the same people who are happy when they're sailing. If anyone is looking for cruising to be a silver bullet of happiness, there's a rude surprise at the end of that plan.
Dang!
I am not a real happy person.
So I fugure I could be just as unhappy when I am away from people (for a large part?) on a boat.
??
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Old 24-03-2008, 17:10   #66
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BTW, Good job Sean. I'd probably have a hard time with that much steel(read that as I probably couldn't do it without some serious training). Still, can your wife haul up the 55# anchor and chain by hand easily? Maybe it won't be a total loss.

Sluissa: Are you coming out with a book soon?? Because I think I have a lot to learn from you. I had forgot about my wife lifting up the anchor since I'm doing the delivery. Your points couldn't be more correct.

RebelHeart: I thought your post made a good point, so I wanted to chime in on it.

I come from the same type of office life as you have, except that I went out on my own for a while and opened a small, 16 person software company. I find that office life is nice, cozy and comfortable, but there is some part of me inside that needs to break free of captivity and live in a more wild way. That's what boat living does for me, personally. It's not that I hated the 9 to 5 because it was so uncomfortable. I hated it because it was so damn boring...

Oh yeah... and I didn't like a lot of the caustic, mean people that thrive in the office environment (not usually on the developer side, but on the business side of things).
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Old 24-03-2008, 17:34   #67
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Sluissa: Are you coming out with a book soon??
I feel like I am, 7 papers to do this semester. All on various subjects, none specifically about cruising, unfortunately.

Sorry for the drift, back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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Old 25-03-2008, 01:51   #68
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sulivan:

I'm with you on that. The office life of a software person is nice and happy. I mean the whole idea is to make it so very comfortable that you want to work more, and that you don't have any nagging distractions. And it's fufilling on several levels. I get to work with great people, and *really* challenged at an intellectual level, and get to be highly creative.

That being said, there is a whole hell of a lot more in this world than software. If we lived forever, I suppose I'd keep writing software for a long time till I eventually got bored of it. But since we don't live forever, I need to get out into the big blue more often and for longer periods, so I can take my small family out to experience this beautiful world we have here.
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Old 25-03-2008, 07:43   #69
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I have been tracking this thread over the past couple of weeks – interesting… For my purposes I assumed the dollar-a-day principle was marginally elastic, don’t know too many folks who could maintain a contemporary boat on exactly a dollar a day, even if they already owned a fiberglass forest… but I’ve long been fascinated by the likes of Peter Tangvald, Bernard Moitessier or even the Pardys (and many others of modest means) who manage to roam the globe indefinitely, unfettered by investment properties, 401Ks or some trust fund – seemingly getting along quite nicely on their innate skills, and such resources as they can scrounge up… are they independent of land, No – we are, after all, land mammals… but are they independent, I’d say, yep “largely…”

Been in and around government work for much of my adult life (in various vocations that occasionally had/have me dragging a suit-case/duffle-bag to some fairly desperate spots around the globe…) and one thing that hit me a few decades back is that there are many thousands of folks living on only a few hundred dollars a year (not month) and I probably could come reasonably close to that as well, if I insisted on living like the indigenous peoples… it’s living like a westerner that gets expensive. I suspect there is a reasonably predictable correlation between actual cruising expenses and how much of Cincinnati, Baltimore, Durbin or Aberdeen I insist on dragging around the globe with me… bearing in mind, that recreational cruising of itself is decidedly first world, not third world…

The afore mentioned minimalist approach (with probably a unique combination of factors for each skipper…) seems reasonably calculated to achieve the least unnecessary expenditures over the long haul – in short, if it ain’t there, it can’t break, wear out or require batteries, etc., etc… For some reason it took me longer to learn this truth in boating than in my other major vice (motorcycling) where I’ve long enjoyed some reasonably lengthy trips on a simple budget – and been wonderfully content along the way… indeed I hate dragging tents, sleeping bags and the like and can’t remember the last time I stayed in a hotel when solo, just sleep on or beside the bike and move on when ready – I have learned that riding two-up (like sailing with a recreational crew) almost immediately triples the cost of the enterprise and cuts the distance traveled in half…

After a palpable hiatus I’ve returned to boats with a fresh, albeit rather austere, outlook – less is more – spent too many years living aboard and sailing/boating in the Bay area on vessels from 42-48 feet… I’m not much of an advocate of the minimalist approach just for the sake of saving every last penny, indeed I hate counting pennies, but rather for the sake of simplicity and to ease the workload that inevitably accompanies larger, more complex and interrelated machinery and electro-gizmos… Am I going to throw away my little handheld GPS, nope… but, I’m not lusting after a satcom either… gotta have some sense or proportion…

But the cost savings seem to go together with simplicity… had to go out and buy a gallon of WEST epoxy last month – amounted to a tad less than 5% of my total expenditures for the year (including boat, dinghy and motor… bearing in mind, I am not living aboard at the moment) and that’s for boat improvements, not just keeping things up… can’t get down to a dollar a day, or at least I don’t think I could when I get there, but one can get along on a far more modest outlay if they really want to… Does this directly address eating, health-care, clothing and other apparent necessities – nope, not exactly, but I am reasonably confident the general “dollar-a-day” premise is sound nonetheless…
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Old 25-03-2008, 08:08   #70
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and one thing that hit me a few decades back is that there are many thousands of folks living on only a few hundred dollars a year (not month)
Did you notice that those people were smiling, happy and content? We too can live rich, happy lives without very much money

Great post
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Old 25-03-2008, 12:50   #71
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Did you notice that those people were smiling, happy and content? We too can live rich, happy lives without very much money
Have spent a little bit of time "foreign" and encountered folk who when living on a dollar a day were miserable as sh#t - for quite understandable reasons.....

But I have been thinking further on this thread - their were some things about the whole proposition that have been nagging at me that I could not quite put my finger on........and then I realised that:-

a) I did not really want to live on literally 1 dollar a day!
b) I was highly unlikely to be able to live on only 1 dollar a day!
and
c) It seems a bit of a negative attitude to try and live spending only 1 dollar a day.

Whereas I think perhaps the ambition could be "sail away for a dollar a day" - if it meant that at the end of the year you had managed to increase the Sailing Kitty by at least a notional dollar a day - by whatever means possible along the way (Working / trading / investments??!!).

To me this seems a fundamentally more acheivable and attractive long term proposition.....even if the work one can pick up along the way is not in yer chosen proffession and is never stuff you would want to do for the next 30 years - but, say, a few weeks / months every year (depending on boat expenses?) would arguably not be any great hardship and in many respects would be a great way to experiance life ashore from meeting "real people" in everyday life, rather than merely as a passing visitor - In any event IME yer can put up with a lot when yer know it is not forever.

A fundamental part of the equation would still be to live frugally on a boat set up to do so (cos' this equals less work!) but just not quite on the same "edge"........I would guess for income earning purposes one would want to be visiting areas where casual work was available at some sort of liveable rate - which probably means 1st World rather than, say, Somalia

It's still "Sailing away for a Dollar a day" - just as income not expenditure!
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Old 25-03-2008, 14:14   #72
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a) I did not really want to live on literally 1 dollar a day!
....
A fundamental part of the equation would still be to live frugally on a boat set up to do so
I don't think too many took you literally, so don't worry
I think its a great thread!
We want to do like you: to be able to live a quality life achievably
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Old 25-03-2008, 15:10   #73
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I would guess for income earning purposes one would want to be visiting areas where casual work was available at some sort of liveable rate - which probably means 1st World rather than, say, Somalia

The problem is that if one is doing work in Somalia then one would get Somali type wages, no? And bread would be at Somali prices, no?

So work must be done in "first world" places while one tries to not eat (read; consume) much until such time as one can make it to a "third world" place before spending down.

Seems to me the amount of time one spends there is dependent a lot on how much "ties" one wants to keep with the first world.

Does one want to have boat insurance?

Does one want to have the ability to be flown back to the US for this or that serious illness or is one satisfied that the "local" doctor can "fix you up"?

Does one want to see if one can get the medicine they want where they end up?

Does one want to drink "local" water?

I have lived more frugally than all my peers my whole life and that nice boat I want is still just a dream that is just out of reach like it was 25 years ago. I guess I just need to lower my sights and get a used Macgregor 26 and take off. I could afford that if I cut off the kids college money.
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Old 30-03-2008, 22:37   #74
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Next up:

Marine specific stuff vs stuff that works? Given that boats are worse than Fords in their need for repair... ( )

So in the quest for living on the cheap I've arrived at a conundrum. There seems to be an aspect of sailors that requires a "marine" grading of parts. Notably in the electrical realm west marines "ANCHOR" brand of shrink connections receive high praise. Whereas curiously similar shrink connections through NAPA are much cheaper. I've torn out 45 year old stranded and solid (woah) copper wire that looked brand new, and 10 year old tinned that was growing fuzz. Things that get used every day need more replacing and repairing than those locked away in a controlled environment.

When it comes to paint, there is no talk of Alkyd enamel only various polyurethanes. Polyester body fillers (bondo or boat in a can) are looked down on by most, while there is a reverence for filled epoxy mixes for fairing. Above the waterline they are spackled and painted over wood boats everywhere, yet glass boats turn their bows elsewhere. Daily use? Does the lifespan of topside paint extend greatly with polyurethane, or is it still a once every year or two ordeal?

Plywood for interior joinery is an interesting discussion in and of its self, as the marine requirement comes from the void free nature of the plies and water resistance of its glue. Whereas the lumber yards, and wood boat builders I've spoken to say the glue is of the same as exterior grade, and unless the panel is under stress are the voids of little importance? - Eventually doors need work and things need making, joinery loosens up and screws need tightening.

In what ways do you guys and gals view these decisions? There is the aspect of doing it right the first time, I'm just wondering how arbitrary "right" is when what is right for a wood boat is seemingly never done on a glass one. Thoughts and opinions? I have a tendency to go for the best possible fit and finish, but I'm finding the cash drain counter productive to going sailing!
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Old 31-03-2008, 03:58   #75
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Plywood for interior joinery is an interesting discussion in and of its self, as the marine requirement comes from the void free nature of the plies and water resistance of its glue. Whereas the lumber yards, and wood boat builders I've spoken to say the glue is of the same as exterior grade, and unless the panel is under stress are the voids of little importance? - Eventually doors need work and things need making, joinery loosens up and screws need tightening.
this is typical. And a fact.The difference is the type of timber, (and believe me depending on where it comes from, you have no guarantee that the timber is more water impervious in the marine version)

The principle of a dollar a day (regardless of how much that dollar actually is) relates more to how practical you are, how much research you do, AND most importantly how much money you have. The whole concept of a "mechanic doing a service on the engine, because we are looking after the engine to save money" is meaningless to someone who cant afford it. On the other hand if you have no money but are equipped to do the service yourself........ I find over and over again, that the people who talk about the necessity to have "marine" equipment are the people who either can afford it or dont sail. A strangely obvious statement when you think about it.

The people who I have met who are poor long term cruisers would love to have...dot dot dot but they cant, full stop end of story. It dosnt stop them living the life. I have met far more poor long term cruisers, call them gypsy's of the sea, than wealthy ones. Unfortunately they often wear the taint of being irresponsible for their lack of buying power.

Just like on land it is possible to live a very frugal life, a life that is still filled with richness. Perhaps it is a life that we may not chose.

My new boat is almost completely built with scrounged materials, but I am still looking (with the view to purchase) a radar set up..........


On my personal sums, I can do $15 aus a day per person, sticking to the Australian coast line, and not having to rough a time. The more people the easier it is.
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