Returning a New Boat

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by chef2sail

Glad to see your later posts. Good to hear that some of the issues were resolved. Good you went the route with the professional captain. I am glad to hear that this hasnt deterred you. Just that the frustration got the better of you at one point. It happens to all of us

I am lucky that we have a very tight knit sailing community in our club where we all are willing to help and lend our expertise to each other. Its how I started learning 40 years ago. I am a great beleiver that in the beginning when learning a sailboat its beeter to hook up in a marinia or club which has other sailors to discuss issues with as well as join in the camradiere. You dont get that on a mooring. Sharing ideas and common experiences is one of the good things abouts forums like Cruisers Forum. When you have experienced sailing friends or networking the need to get a professional captain may be lessened. Then you can pay it back some day by helping other new sailors.

Hold Hunter to the fire methodically and calmly to fix the issues which are warenteed. Be there when they do it if possible for a learning experience as well as quality control to be satisfied. Some day you will be presented with similar issues when you are not under warentee. You can always pay someone to fix them ( well not always) or you canlearn to do most of the stuff yourself.

Go forward and enjoy your boat when she is sailable. There is nothing quite like a good sail to clear the head.

Dave

Thank you Dave, I appreciate the kind words.

Wish I had a club to join, I'm at a marina in which I'm the only sailor. Need to get sponsored to join a club and honestly don't know any sailors anyways. Still new to the cruising world.

Hunter is definitely involved in conversations with the dealership and component manufacturers, but has taken a back seat. It seems I have to deal directly with other companies to get work done, in that regard I have made strides.

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

According to web cites of newspaper articles, the new group onl bought the ASSETS of Hunter (of Morgan, etc. including Hunter) and not the liabilities. If the dealer delivered the boat knowing Hunter was already gone, and that the warranty no longer existed, there might be an action against the dealer.

But in terms of recovering from the new company, or Hunter? Unlikely, there's no one at Hunter, and the new company did not buy the liabilties, they're not obligated to anything. Depending on the timing and details--the dealer might be the only one to recover against.

So what I'm gathering is that I have no warranty now? My problem was getting my dealer to do solid work on their dime and requested that hunter make sure they do so. That was difficult enough, can't imagine what this is going to do to my dilemma. But one thing at a time here...

[hellosailor]

I don't know, Greg. But from what I read, Hunter is now totally gone and let off the hook by our disgraceful bankruptcy system. The dealer's obligations might be governed by their franchise contract, or NYS laws, you'd have to ask them or a lawyer to find out. Odds are, not so good.

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

What was the "hurry"?

I assume you mean in removing my boat from the dealership?

To that I'll explain from the beginning. Boat was ordered last summer and was delivered in January. For whatever reason no work was done until march. The boat wasn't splashed until may. I know commissioning takes time but I can't imagine what they did in all that time because even my autopilot and tv wasn't installed until after it was in the water. Their answer was they had other boats to put in, basically I wasnt their priority.

They asked for final payment upon delivery, we settled on at commissioning. Once they had my money, they became lazy. I know, shame on me for paying without a survey and inspection. This was my biggest mistake!

Moving on, I had starter solenoid and engine control panels fail on my first cruise. Took them 4 days to repair and I paid for berthing at the other marina. On way home had an engine oil leak which they took 2 weeks to repair. The second starter solenoid and engine control panels were replaced shortly thereafter due to poor installation on the original replacement. I was towed twice on my dollar during all of this.

This was already 5 months after delivery and I still didn't have a working chart plotter, or basic things like cockpit cushion snaps to keep them in place.

I ordered Zarcor companionway doors, they charged me 1500. Zarcor charges half that. My boat was used as a demo and was showed to potential buyers, they don't admit this but I am sure of it.

My attorneys Sent a letter requesting that all items be completed promptly and correctly to the dealer and hunter. Hunter didn't respond. The dealer ignored all further communication. It was time to go...


Since then, have had all sorts of small and big things go haywire and both hunter and the dealer is unresponsive at best. I'm on my own with this one.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

According to web cites of newspaper articles, the new group onl bought the ASSETS of Hunter (of Morgan, etc. including Hunter) and not the liabilities. If the dealer delivered the boat knowing Hunter was already gone, and that the warranty no longer existed, there might be an action against the dealer.

But in terms of recovering from the new company, or Hunter? Unlikely, there's no one at Hunter, and the new company did not buy the liabilties, they're not obligated to anything. Depending on the timing and details--the dealer might be the only one to recover against.

If the new owners desire to "fix" Hunter, they should respond with some help anyway.... would be my guess.... even if they only bought the assets. If nothing else, a well written long letter may get the dealer "de-Huntered"... OTOH maybe they'll welcome it!

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I don't know, Greg. But from what I read, Hunter is now totally gone and let off the hook by our disgraceful bankruptcy system. The dealer's obligations might be governed by their franchise contract, or NYS laws, you'd have to ask them or a lawyer to find out. Odds are, not so good.

Omg. Great one more issue to deal with.

Thanks for the info, i gotta look into that further.

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by GreggL

I wish I could tell you the whole truth so all could hear.. Private message me if you'd like a horror story.

Just tell it everywhere else. You'll get censored here. It's the one bad thing about this site.

[sv Winterlude]

I am so bummed by your experience. I am always amazed that our experience with our almost 30 year old boat is not much different than those buying a brand new boat, not just Hunter, but lots of other more expensive brands.

Basically it's no different with "vintage" boats vs new boats, you'd better learn how to take care of your own boat ... otherwise, it's nothing but frustration.

At least with a 30 year old boat you expect to have to fix these things, with a brand new boat, I'd think it would be perfect.... Hang in there -- the experience IS worth the hassle!

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by sv Winterlude

I am so bummed by your experience. I am always amazed that our experience with our almost 30 year old boat is not much different than those buying a brand new boat, not just Hunter, but lots of other more expensive brands.

Basically it's no different with "vintage" boats vs new boats, you'd better learn how to take care of your own boat ... otherwise, it's nothing but frustration.

At least with a 30 year old boat you expect to have to fix these things, with a brand new boat, I'd think it would be perfect.... Hang in there -- the experience IS worth the hassle!

That was my perspective as well. I expected annoyances and a lot of breaking in, what I'm experiencing is major breakdowns, improper installations with no regard for safety, offensive dealership and manufacturer customer service and so forth.

[hellosailor]

Gregg, if, as I'd heard, Morgan/Hunter were not making tax payments, they may have also missed payroll, dealer comissions, etc. and it is possible the dealer did nothing for some months waiting for Hunter to pay them to do something. At which point they gave up and someone said "deliver the damned boat" and do it with the least cost. If Hunter has gone through bankruptcy, they won't answer your lawyer's letter, because they don't exist anymore. You might tell him to contact the bankruptcy trustee or whatever the proper party is.

These days? SAAB and Volvo owners had similar worries, you know, if the company is spun off and dies...what good is the five year warranty? And if the goal of the new ownes is to move the tooling, etc. to China to serve that domestic market, or a PacRim market...goodwill on the old US market won't be worth a penny to them.

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Gregg, if, as I'd heard, Morgan/Hunter were not making tax payments, they may have also missed payroll, dealer comissions, etc. and it is possible the dealer did nothing for some months waiting for Hunter to pay them to do something. At which point they gave up and someone said "deliver the damned boat" and do it with the least cost. If Hunter has gone through bankruptcy, they won't answer your lawyer's letter, because they don't exist anymore. You might tell him to contact the bankruptcy trustee or whatever the proper party is.

These days? SAAB and Volvo owners had similar worries, you know, if the company is spun off and dies...what good is the five year warranty? And if the goal of the new ownes is to move the tooling, etc. to China to serve that domestic market, or a PacRim market...goodwill on the old US market won't be worth a penny to them.

This was back in January though. They didn't file until April, how can I know if I have a case against the dealer for going through with the deal without disclosure?

[hellosailor]

You'd have to ask your attorney. Whether you have a case probably depends on two things:
1-What the dealer can be proven to have known
2-Whether the dealer had any duty to tell you anything.

Your lawyer will know #2. you'd have to spend money on lawyer time to find out #1, so it might not be worth doing.

[Stu Jackson]

January in Long Island is winter, isn't it?

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

January in Long Island is winter, isn't it?

That's correct. It was stored indoors where interior work on the boat could have certainly happened... If that's the point you were trying to make.

[Fizzwizz]

I think what happened to you was disgusting. Nobody who parts with their hard earned cash for anything should be abandoned after sale. I had a similar experience after making the stupid decision to buy a boat in Malta. My prerequisite was that the boat must be capable of making the journey back to Spain. I hired a surveyor/engineer who took the boat to sea trial in advance of buying. I paid £1,000 (a lot of money in Malta) for the survey and sea trial. The engineer told me she was in good order. I asked why both oil pressure guages had read zero during the trial. He said the guages were faulty as the oil pressure was fine and the engines were in great shape. I said bluntly, I'm about to take my children in this boat over sea to Spain, would you trust this boat with your children? He said YES.

I bought the boat and 2 hours into our first sail the starboard engine went bang with a huge puff of smoke. I challenged the engineer who said it was unpredictable and an engine could go at any time. For some reason I believed him and agreed a price of £1,000 to repair the engine if I ordered the parts. He said he would lift the engine and replace it on the berth. The repair which was supposed to be 6 weeks took 10 months. When finally done I went to collect my boat. He had had the boat lifted and stood on the hard standing for 10 months without my knowledge. The bill was another £4,000. I noticed on the sea trial with the new engine the oil gauge now read normally (but the port engine gauge said zero still) I later found out that the surveyor/engineer's wife worked for the broker. I sold the boat straight away and lost nearly £20,000. You live and learn!