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Old 12-08-2012, 21:34   #16
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Re: Returning a new boat

If they are not bankrupt.... does your state have a lemon law? Might be able to do it under that statute. ALthough it appears most of your troubles are peripherals.... well not the basic ship anyway.
What engine?
regarding commissioning... Boat dealer are not and never have been like car dealers with suport. "fuggitaboudit"... all boat work takes longer than expected, even when done by the "experts". On a new boat a performance agreement in the contract would have been nice, although not sure if it's possible. (ie: costs them $300 per day they are late)
I'm a firm believer of "where there's smoke, there's fire". One would only have to read one thread on in mast furling to realize, at best, you are risking getting something you're not satisfied with. Sure , there are proponants out there, but the "smoke" is how many bad experiences are noted. I'm old school I guess, when someone says this new widget is great, I say, "cool... Ill give it a try after it's been in the real world for a few years..."
Anyway, sorry for your troubles, the first year is definitely the hardest, then you start to get "in the groove"... stick with it.
Oh, one more thing for any newbies out there: be careful about over analyzing the boat, or widget you want. S/A displacement ratios etc..... keep it simple.... use common sense. It's easy to over think things to the point of paralysis, or until you've made a simple thing difficult. You will adapt to the boat you buy,,,,
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Old 12-08-2012, 21:46   #17
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Originally Posted by transmitterdan
Hi Gregg,

I'm sorry you are having problems. I haven't seen any details in your posts about the problems so it is hard to give advice on the technical matters. You could try describing one or two of the bigger problems and maybe someone can help you.

When you bought this boat did you know Hunter was part of a bankruptcy? Your lawyers may find the answer to that useful.

Dan
Speaking to the bankruptcy, no that was not disclosed but the proceedings had already started. I only found out when I saw the emails from their director of sales and his signature had "debtor in possession" listed. That's mandatory I believe for all correspondence business wise when in that situation. I then googled and sure enough, hunter filed for bankruptcy.

Details on issues, here we go.. Engine oil leak finally repaired, control panes replaced twice, and starter solenoids. These are warranty things and I get it, they beak. And they were fixed. So I'm not going to cry about that. My big issue is my dealerships work,on commissioning. They rushed the job and everything is wrong. Specifically had a major problem today when I noticed my in mast furling roller was installed backwards so that the ratchet setting does not provide a safety net when High wind gusts occur. People could've died, this is a very scary scenario and I don't know what else they messed up.

So now I'm afraid to go sailing...
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Old 12-08-2012, 21:46   #18
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Originally Posted by Mardav
I am not giving you legal advice. If Hunter is in Bankruptcy as you state, I would suggest contacting the Trustee. His job is to protect the creditors of the corporation, and as a warranty holder you are protected as well (assuming you purchased after the filing). If the trustee does not act (he will) you can file a pro se motion with the court yourself, the court clerk will assist you in all probability.

Good Luck, hang in there.
I'll look into that. Thanks!
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Old 12-08-2012, 21:51   #19
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Originally Posted by Cheechako
If they are not bankrupt.... does your state have a lemon law? Might be able to do it under that statute. ALthough it appears most of your troubles are peripherals.... well not the basic ship anyway.
What engine?
regarding commissioning... Boat dealer are not and never have been like car dealers with suport. "fuggitaboudit"... all boat work takes longer than expected, even when done by the "experts". On a new boat a performance agreement in the contract would have been nice, although not sure if it's possible. (ie: costs them $300 per day they are late)
I'm a firm believer of "where there's smoke, there's fire". One would only have to read one thread on in mast furling to realize, at best, you are risking getting something you're not satisfied with. Sure , there are proponants out there, but the "smoke" is how many bad experiences are noted. I'm old school I guess, when someone says this new widget is great, I say, "cool... Ill give it a try after it's been in the real world for a few years..."
Anyway, sorry for your troubles, the first year is definitely the hardest, then you start to get "in the groove"... stick with it.
Oh, one more thing for any newbies out there: be careful about over analyzing the boat, or widget you want. S/A displacement ratios etc..... keep it simple.... use common sense. It's easy to over think things to the point of paralysis, or until you've made a simple thing difficult. You will adapt to the boat you buy,,,,
Looked into the lemon laws, unfortunately it's tough because as the boat has so many components not made by hunter, the combo of the issues is hard to define as a lemon to one specific manufacturer. Hunter won't take responsibility for anything so im handling on my own. Pretty sure they can't speak to me anyways anymore because my attorneys already wrote them.
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Old 13-08-2012, 01:01   #20
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Don't give up. What you are finding is no boat, even a new one comes without problems. That is not reason enough to give up your passion or dream if it truly is your passion. Just CALMLY and methodically work through the issues with the sub contractors as well as Hunter. Don't go away, don't settle just require them matter of factly to live up o their warranty. Your model of Hunter is a relatively new one do some issues will be there jut because of that. New engines leak as do old ones, yours is warenteed. Yanmars are great engines, that doesn't mean that the don't have issues, even new ones. Furling mains are not the choice of most sailors or two reasons, one sailing trim and shape and two, problems in furling you don't have with normal configured mains. Putting it on backwards is no excuse and not cool. Maybe now is the time to get them to put on a regular main ( not sure tis is possible with the mast you bought)

I understand you are frustrated buying a new boat and having these issues, but tht is not a reason to throwin the towel.

Why did you choose this particular brand, boat, and sail set up?

One thing you said which kind of intrigued me. You mentioned because you were young you thought the Hunter people would listen to you, as you could in the future buy larger boats. Funny I don't see it quite the way you do. I would think the opposite but I probably would have to generalize. Younger would have less expendable income due to other family expenses such as children, unpaid debt ie school loans, mortgages as well as experience in boat buying.

If a few incidents like this is all it takes to deter you, then you may be right, then this isn't for you. Don't give up so easily in the face of adversity. A sail flapping in 25 knots ijs not life threatening. That's a bit of hyperbole. You can just let it go and replace Being offshore with a hole in your boat, now that's an emergency. we were just struck by lightning through the water while we we in the boat. Scary, yes. Life threatening, yes. Fried all my electronics. They can be replaced as thy are material objects. When you get thrown on off the horse you get back on, especially if you like horses. Maybe this too is an age related lesson to learn. Get back on the horse, get it right, and use it as an experience lesson. You will become a better sailor and more knowledgable about boats and their systems from it.

Easy does it. Hope to meet you in a coming weeks on our trip to the LI Sound And MV.

Dave
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Old 13-08-2012, 02:13   #21
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Re: Returning a new boat

Spent $12,000 (5 percent of purchase price) within six months to get my new boat "right." That's not counting extras like fenders, binoculars, etcetera). So, what's your problem? Gee, delivery costs, duties, and sales/use taxes totaled several more times than that. Most/many of us needn't boat unless we have money we don't otherwise know what to do with.
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Old 13-08-2012, 02:51   #22
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Re: Returning a new boat

I managed to return a 38 foot yacht. Not a Hunter but a production boat.

The laws here may be different but I found public humiliation, signs on boat, hang out at yacht club bar bagging them with facts so as to avoid defamation etc etc.

Alternatively have you considered a mediator, each get a surveyor or preferably mutually agree on a surveyor to get it fixed.

Finally you could offer that they use the boat as a demo free of charge within reason. Guarantee everything would work perfect.

Anyway just some ideas. Good luck, I still remember the stress of my problem its horrible!
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Old 13-08-2012, 05:50   #23
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I know of one boat that was "returned" it sat in litigation for 4-5 years and the owner was instructed not to touch the boat until it setteled. Every states law is different but i think your in a rough spot given their financial situation.
I think chef2sail's advice is spot on. You could buy a good used boat sfter a good survey just to find the surveyor was an idiot (many are) and hsve even more issues with zero recourse. At least most of yournproblems will be covered. You always catch more bees with honey, than piss n vinegar...
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Old 13-08-2012, 06:02   #24
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your rights to revoke your acceptance under the Uniform Commercial Code are limited. You are better off gettingthe boat fixed under warranty.
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Old 13-08-2012, 06:39   #25
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Check with ur states ombudsman. They can put pressure on the dealer. Also call it congressperson/ senator and have them initiate contact thru the consumer financial protection bureau.
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Old 13-08-2012, 07:19   #26
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Re: Returning a new boat

first you have to row a little boat
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Old 13-08-2012, 07:22   #27
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Re: Returning a new boat

Same problem with a used boat! Mine is down for a part. Cant find it except for one custom shop so I wait.. I use the time constructively to do maintenance on other parts of the boat. Its a lifestyle.. so I try to chillax... keep it in perspective.
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Old 13-08-2012, 07:39   #28
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Re: Returning a new boat

Sounds like a headache. Unfortunately buying a new boat is no guarantee.

If you have lost confidence in the boat, (that sounds like the real issue here).

It can take a while to regain that.

Getting rid of the boat, and buying another one, will likely take you right back to where you are now minus a lot of money.

At least right now the major parts of the boat are under warranty. repeated shakedown cruises, (that is why we have them), in good weather, and close to tow boat US, will be the best way to resolve them.

You might hire a Captain to help, he will have experience in boat emergencies, and on the water repairs, and how things are "supposed" to work.

And that will free you to try out all the boats systems without being tied to the helm.

Keep on the dealer, things on boats go a lot slower than on land.

I can take my car to be fixed by the dealer and get it back in a week, ....for a boat? a month is more likely, or the whole summer if their busy.


You will have to supervise the repairs yourself, or hire a surveyer to supervise. Most yards to save cost hire kids, or immigrants to do the work with one or two people that actually know what they are doing,....after two or three tries.


The advice about a used boat, is a new boat, as you found out has as many problems as a used,...they just cost more.

Good luck. You will be happier once you get your boat fixed and you will regain confidence once you have a few uneventful sails.
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Old 13-08-2012, 07:49   #29
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Re: Returning a new boat

I'm not a Hunter owner but don't think it's the boat, it's the dealership! Having bought three new boats in my sailing life I cannot stress enough the importance of a good dealer. Even if you have to go out of your home area to find a good dealer. It may seem a bit cumbersome to go a thousand miles to a good dealer but let me tell you it's worth it. Go to that dealer and stay there for two weeks during the commissioning. Most buyers do not know that the majority of those boxes you tick on the purchase form are installed by the dealer.

Check out the dealer closely before you buy. In most sailing communities word travels fast and word of poor dealers travels even faster. Being in a yacht club helps as there usually are members that have bought from the local dealer and you can easily find out how new owners are faring with the "local" dealer.

Buying a new cruising boat is no small purchase, second for most folks to buying their house. Check out who you're doing business with before you sign!
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Old 13-08-2012, 07:52   #30
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Re: Returning a new boat

Is all Hunter in bankruptcy or just power boat division - Luhrs? Unfortunately, sometimes you just get what you pay for. Years ago when I bought a C&C 37+, I shopped dealers as well as the boat. I lived in Jacksonville then and there was a dealer in Jacksonville. After investigation, I went with a dealer on the West Coast of Florida based on dealer reputation.
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