Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-09-2014, 12:43   #76
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,157
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBWT View Post
Errrrr....no. The problem with these broad brush statements is the actual effect to you us almost zero. If you are invested in single stock accounts or day trading platforms, the chance of you being effected by the downlink trading is significant to the tune of a couple dollars per year. Yes they make millions but like any penny scam they are taking fractions of penny's to amount to a greater whole. It is bad, yes, are you loosing thousands, hundreds or even tens of dollars per year, no. Is the market rigged because of this, no.

It's like saying hedge funds are terrible and all they do is rip people off. Yes they may be poor investment choices but you have to be a qualified investor which I am sure there are very few on this board. So the actuality is far different from perception. The funny part about your statements is the mutual fund market unless actively managed (tactical) is not effected by downlink trading. So I guess mutual funds are good for closing small exposure to downlink trading but bad... I'm still trying to figure that part out.

Any 401k qualified mutual fund must be means tested annually to make sure they comply with about 200 SEC and FINRA regulations of fiduciary standards.

Let's all take advice from Rich Dad Poor Dad who has been questioned about his wealth management techniques and nonexistent evidence to support his wealth advice and he clearly states, "this is not wealth management advice, it is only a motivational tool to make you STaRT understanding money."That and he likes to charge 12,000 for a weekend seminar no find out more on why mutual funds are a rip off.

I got it, my new business plan! Make up total nonsense and charge people for weekend seminars. I am gonna be rich!
You might as well, since you think that high frequency trading companies stealing tens of billions per year (every penny of which is coming out of someone's pocket) is not really rigging the market.

That's why the FBI and SEC are investigating it, because nothing is wrong.

As for the Kiyosaki video, if you actually read what I posted and listened to the video, he was quoting John Bogle, retired head of Vanguard.

Here is the actual video of John Bogle saying it. Remember, you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with John Bogle.

__________________

__________________
socaldmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 14:18   #77
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 108
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
You might as well, since you think that high frequency trading companies stealing tens of billions per year (every penny of which is coming out of someone's pocket) is not really rigging the market.

That's why the FBI and SEC are investigating it, because nothing is wrong.

As for the Kiyosaki video, if you actually read what I posted and listened to the video, he was quoting John Bogle, retired head of Vanguard.

Here is the actual video of John Bogle saying it. Remember, you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with John Bogle.

I never said it wasn't a big deal, I clearly said "Bad". What it isn't is the reason to believe that Wall Street is "rigged" because of downlink trading. Just because you watch a 60 minute report or a Frontline interview which had over a dozen retractions from its original report, DOES NOT MAKE YOU A EXPERT OR EVEN A PERSON THAT SHOULD ENDOW YOUR OPINION OF FINANCIAL ADVICE FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

To make this argument even stupider (notice that isn't a real word), you first claim mutual funds are "ripoff" and then you post something from John Bogel, the head of the LARGEST MUTUAL FUND COMPANY IN THE WORLD as defense. Are fees bad, yes, anytime you utilize a money multiplier (look it up) and add any fees, all are bad. But guess what, even if you buy single stocks, you pay a price. To claim that an FP will not notify of this is the broad brush statement that I would so glaringly point out. A great website for you to learn aboutfiduciary standards is to go to CFP.net. It has great and factual information. Since your a John Bogel fan, I am going to leave you with some great food for thought. Vanguard recommends the use of a Financial Planner, as FP investment analysis of Vanguard funds outperform individuals personal planning allocation. I just blew your mind.

Your Welcome
__________________

__________________
HBWT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 18:43   #78
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken View Post
Denver, there's no risk in that. You are guaranteed to lose money as a result of inflation. And it doesn't take that long. Inflation is 100% over about 33 years.
Well this is only true if the Federal Reserve continues to exist, whose actual purpose is to make sure there is inflation, so those with wealth maintain it, and those who work and save fall behind. A good bet that it continues, however, not 100%.
__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 19:15   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,157
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBWT View Post
I never said it wasn't a big deal, I clearly said "Bad". What it isn't is the reason to believe that Wall Street is "rigged" because of downlink trading. Just because you watch a 60 minute report or a Frontline interview which had over a dozen retractions from its original report, DOES NOT MAKE YOU A EXPERT OR EVEN A PERSON THAT SHOULD ENDOW YOUR OPINION OF FINANCIAL ADVICE FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

To make this argument even stupider (notice that isn't a real word), you first claim mutual funds are "ripoff" and then you post something from John Bogel, the head of the LARGEST MUTUAL FUND COMPANY IN THE WORLD as defense. Are fees bad, yes, anytime you utilize a money multiplier (look it up) and add any fees, all are bad. But guess what, even if you buy single stocks, you pay a price. To claim that an FP will not notify of this is the broad brush statement that I would so glaringly point out. A great website for you to learn aboutfiduciary standards is to go to CFP.net. It has great and factual information. Since your a John Bogel fan, I am going to leave you with some great food for thought. Vanguard recommends the use of a Financial Planner, as FP investment analysis of Vanguard funds outperform individuals personal planning allocation. I just blew your mind.

Your Welcome
What's with all of the anger/hostility? Can't prove your point with logic, or a video, so you go on the offensive with sheer rudeness? Personal attacks are the domain of those who cannot make their point, either because it cannot be made, or they lack the skills to make it.

I'm sure that goes over well with your customers. Come back when you have something useful to add to the discussion.
__________________
socaldmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 19:47   #80
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Well this is only true if the Federal Reserve continues to exist, whose actual purpose is to make sure there is inflation, so those with wealth maintain it, and those who work and save fall behind. A good bet that it continues, however, not 100%.
Without the federal reserve there would be anarchy. Before the federal reserve there WAS anarchy. Read your history books.

As for fees, when you start working for free come back and tell us how you like it. Fees are how businesses earn a living. Some charge more and some charge less, so when you go shopping for an investment consider the fees, just as if you were buying a car. By the way, John Bogle's Vanguard funds have some of the lowest fees in the industry, so in effect he is blowing his own horn. But its a good horn...
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 20:27   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,157
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

I have a Scottrade account. Flat $7 per trade via the internet, vs 30% from the lowest fees mutual fund.
__________________
socaldmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 11:32   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 108
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

What? What point would you like me to prove in my last statement. Pretty sure a google search would help because god knows there is no way I can change your opinion. I did give you a wealth of information with the CFP.net not only for fiduciary standards but for just plain great ways to understand markets and performance risk without paying 12000 for a weekend seminar.

30% for a mutual fund? What mutual funds are you trying to buy? Actually this does not exist. It can't exist unless your are buying a LP. You may have confused this with a (.) Before the 30%. That's not 30%, that is 30 basis point or 30% of 1%. For example Vanguards cheapest fee fund is .08%. If you are referring to simply a trade fee there are thousands of spider etf's that have 0 trade fee. Another great reason I recommend a financial planner.... Especially for you. So you are paying 7 dollars per trade vs. .30% annual per mutual fund fee. Im Failing to see your argument. A high end tactical actively managed mutual fund ranges in the 2-2.5% cost! Yes you have a wide variance it types of shares and custodial fees but none even range outside of 5% total. Not since the 80's. Even a sub account fund with guarantee riders still range in the 1.5-2% range and the insurance carrier takes all the risk. Warren Buffet himself could not sell a mutual fund with a 30% cost ratio.

The reason your comments aggregate me to no end is you take the blind approach and expect it to be bible. You make a blanket statement or statements and the actual facts are far from your opinion. You watched a 60 minute, netflix documentary or Frontline tv show and decided this was reality. I believe everyone should have his/her own opinion but never ever be used as fact. You don't like mutual funds... Fine. Are you saying that scotttrade is better to trade single stocks vs. fees? How much do you pay for all of scotttrades analytics to decide on what stocks to buy? That's not free. Where do you compare your breakouts, p/e and SD. ? So add your 7 dollars plus analytic cost, plus custodial cost and you end up with... Fees far greater than 2.5%. I have nothing against scotttrade, I think they have some great information and tools and they have done a fantastic job marketing to those of us DIY'ers. But the most important role of the DIY approach is knowing the facts to make informed DIY investment decisions. I commend you on your DIY attitude and devil may care disregard for the facts, just don't blow it by saying a mutual fund cost is 30%, mutual funds are a scam, and the stock market is rigged. Oops you already did.
__________________
HBWT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 12:12   #83
Registered User
 
skippy's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Florida
Boat: Symbol Pilot House 52
Posts: 98
Images: 1
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

We got caught up in that "oh you made too much money on that house" taxation so we ended up with a condo in So Ca. 45 days to identify a new property for a 1031 exchange and 45 days to close on it. Minimal upkeep and prime location for rental. Also own a condo in Fla that we rent. Keep options open but get professional advice. Going to rent place in So Ca. and live on the boat with 2 positive flows of money from rent. The more you have the trickier it gets coze the government is going to figure out how to get it all. They want their share and your share.
__________________
skippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 12:15   #84
Registered User
 
skippy's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Florida
Boat: Symbol Pilot House 52
Posts: 98
Images: 1
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

forgot to add... everyone's financial situation is different. Where money comes from, maturity of investments, tax brackets etc. Hopefully you have an accountant or a financial advisor that you have a history with and knows your portfolio and you can trust. if not- find one.
__________________
skippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 12:22   #85
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Relax, HBWT. I dont think he meant any such thing. I am also in mutual funds, have been since the early 80's, IIRC. But I also buy individual stocks and always check the fees first. It's all part of my diversified investment plan. And as far as 60 mnutes/Frontline/Netflix/CNBC, they can also affect investors opinions (although not to any great extent, in my experience). And when that happens, guess what else happens; buying and/or selling opportunities! Just like the gulf oil spill a few years ago resulted in a great buy opportunity for BP.

And you say "they" dont charge 30% fees? I have to call you out on that one. Back a few years ago when gold was nearing $1700, I listened to a radio infomercial where the scammer was selling gold and telling his listeners that he was charging 30% over market because in a few months it would be worth more than that. Now how's that for a line of BS? Wonder how many he scammed...
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 12:58   #86
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,157
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBWT View Post
What? What point would you like me to prove in my last statement. Pretty sure a google search would help because god knows there is no way I can change your opinion. I did give you a wealth of information with the CFP.net not only for fiduciary standards but for just plain great ways to understand markets and performance risk without paying 12000 for a weekend seminar.

30% for a mutual fund? What mutual funds are you trying to buy? Actually this does not exist. It can't exist unless your are buying a LP. You may have confused this with a (.) Before the 30%. That's not 30%, that is 30 basis point or 30% of 1%. For example Vanguards cheapest fee fund is .08%. If you are referring to simply a trade fee there are thousands of spider etf's that have 0 trade fee. Another great reason I recommend a financial planner.... Especially for you. So you are paying 7 dollars per trade vs. .30% annual per mutual fund fee. Im Failing to see your argument. A high end tactical actively managed mutual fund ranges in the 2-2.5% cost! Yes you have a wide variance it types of shares and custodial fees but none even range outside of 5% total. Not since the 80's. Even a sub account fund with guarantee riders still range in the 1.5-2% range and the insurance carrier takes all the risk. Warren Buffet himself could not sell a mutual fund with a 30% cost ratio.

The reason your comments aggregate me to no end is you take the blind approach and expect it to be bible. You make a blanket statement or statements and the actual facts are far from your opinion. You watched a 60 minute, netflix documentary or Frontline tv show and decided this was reality. I believe everyone should have his/her own opinion but never ever be used as fact. You don't like mutual funds... Fine. Are you saying that scotttrade is better to trade single stocks vs. fees? How much do you pay for all of scotttrades analytics to decide on what stocks to buy? That's not free. Where do you compare your breakouts, p/e and SD. ? So add your 7 dollars plus analytic cost, plus custodial cost and you end up with... Fees far greater than 2.5%. I have nothing against scotttrade, I think they have some great information and tools and they have done a fantastic job marketing to those of us DIY'ers. But the most important role of the DIY approach is knowing the facts to make informed DIY investment decisions. I commend you on your DIY attitude and devil may care disregard for the facts, just don't blow it by saying a mutual fund cost is 30%, mutual funds are a scam, and the stock market is rigged. Oops you already did.
*sigh*

Again, you need to watch the video.

I'm not the one claiming it's 30%, John Bogle did, in the video. He's not claiming the fees are 30% of your investment, but if you're annual yield is 7.5% and you're getting charged 2.x%, that could easily end up being 30% of your profit. The most egregious part of the whole broker/mutual fund scam is the fact that you get charged fees, win or lose. They take your money, invest it, if it goes up, they take fees. If it goes down, they take fees, compounding your losses. I'm sure you'll have some argument for that, as well.

I hope that doesn't "aggregate" you any more. I could make a lot of assumptions about your intelligence level based on your poor comprehension and writing skills, but I don't.

If you wish to argue about what the video actually says, I'd recommend you actually watch the video. It's that simple. I'm not making unsupported wild accusations, just stating my opinion, and backing it up with videos from people whose credentials in the financial world, and in research, certainly eclipse yours.

I once spent a weekend in the mid 80s with Jack Dreyfus at his beatiful 11,000 sft south Lake Tahoe mansion. I eventually screwed up the courage to ask him about his success on Wall St. His reply was along the lines of, "I made millions running the investment firm, NOT by buying mutual funds." I'm sure you think that is pure hogwash as well, but go ahead, see if any of his customers surpassed his wealth.

Think about it this way. How many mutual fund managers have houses in the Hamptons and some of the largest superyachts in the world? Most of them.

How many of their customers do? I'm willing to say "none."

How many of you have auto mechanics with mansions in the Hamptons and superyachts? None?

If these mutual fund managers were TRULY in the business of increasing YOUR wealth, why are they making more than ANY of their customers year after year? The proof is right there. Their prime motivation is to make money for the firm (thus themselves) not for the customers.



Let's start over. Please ignore everything I've posted, and I'll ignore you.

Just answer the OPs questions, to the best of your abilities. If it boils down to hiring a CFP that he can TRUST, then it was identical to my first post.


No wonder Warren Buffet isn't in here asking for advice...

LOL
__________________
socaldmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 13:29   #87
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Hey! Go easy on the Oracle of Omaha! A few years ago BRKB announced a 50 for 1 stock split. I immediately bought before the split. Right now its selling for double what I paid. Only downside - no dividends.
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 13:58   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,157
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
Hey! Go easy on the Oracle of Omaha! A few years ago BRKB announced a 50 for 1 stock split. I immediately bought before the split. Right now its selling for double what I paid. Only downside - no dividends.
Wow! Fantastic timing!
__________________
socaldmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 14:02   #89
Registered User
 
Parmenter's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 156
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I'll give you some good financial advice:

Find yourself a good financial planner, someone who does this for a living.
I always ask myself, If the financial planner is so good why is it that he/she is still working?
Is it that they haven't taken enough of "Other Peoples Money" yet for them to retire themselves?
__________________
Parmenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2014, 14:34   #90
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Retirement / Financial advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Wow! Fantastic timing!
Not really. I frequently find a quick review of the daily financial news. Sometimes seemingly unimportant tidbits strike me as an investment opportunity. So one day I read that Berkshire will be doing a 50 for 1 split on their "B" series shares. They were $3000 each share, so most average investors cant afford to buy it, although they would sure love to own it. But after the split they would be $60 per share. Reasoning that at the split price the average stock buyer would jump on it I bought some shares at $3000. Thats just what happened. That $60 share is now over $120 last time I looked...
__________________

__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
men, retirement

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Working Through Retirement - AKA Working Retirement CNC-Charters Boat Ownership & Making a Living 21 01-09-2012 20:58
Broadblue in Financial Difficulty????? ireaney Multihull Sailboats 65 30-06-2010 14:13
Financial survival at sea. Gashmore Dollars & Cents 8 10-08-2008 09:17
Things to Know before chartering - Financial/Liability doconner Boat Ownership & Making a Living 4 04-09-2007 12:20



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.