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Old 16-07-2012, 13:38   #1
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Pantaenius Marine Insurance and the Gulf Coast

Hi All,
I sincerely hope that this isn't a repeat of an early post, but I felt it was worth sharing.

I've just been shipping around (no pun intended) for new insurance based upon.

Sailboat: 47' (age post 2000)
3rd party liability: $300k
Hull value: $150k
Mooring location: Kemah, Texas
Mooring location during hurricane season: Same as above.

I've had some reasonable quotes with the exception of Pantaenius who were unable to provide a quote. Upon enquiring further, they stated that they could not provide a quotation for any vessel that:

a) Had an agreed hull value under $500k, AND;
b) Was located below 30.5degN during hurricane season.

If I was willing to move the boat above 30.5N during 'the season' they could provide a quote.

The only place that i'm aware of on the whole of the Gulf coast which is above 30.5N is Mobile, Alabama which is located at 30.68degN.

Evidently, you may be wasting your time requesting insurance quotes from Pantaenius if you live on the gulf coast and you don't own a $500k+ vessel..

Has anyone else had similar experiences?
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Old 17-08-2013, 04:39   #2
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

Considering pantaenius is a bully/scam company that only at best reimburses small damageís but if you get a total loss you need to drag them screaming like a child to court! And thy do everything to drag the proses out as long as they can to make sure you drown in lawyer fees.. And it is there strategy.. Thy give you a shameless offer on your boat whit the undertone that if you donít accept it you get nothing forcing you to sue them. And then the lawyers start to do their thing back and forth and when you feel like you getting closer to finely get to court thy start blaming someone else ** itís not our fault you should not sue us but you need to sue them*
Having a fixed value is just sales bullshit and nothing else and you are better off whit a REAL incurrence company.
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Old 17-08-2013, 05:04   #3
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

TSO,
Pantaenius have a good reputation in Europe, do you have any facts to back up your points, do you have personal experience of being wronged by them?

oh and welcome to the Forum.
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Old 17-08-2013, 05:07   #4
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pirate Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

Different Area... so can't comment... never dealt with the US branch... think its a different animal dealing with a different mentality...
Over here in the EU.. Pantaenius UK is great...
Speaking as a former customer (no boat at present)... and... as a delivery skipper I'll recommend them to every customer who needs insurance.
Something I have found though is that some owners are scammers and con artists... they'll try and claim for every silly little thing... and try to get new for ancient... one owner in particular comes to mind... this makes assessors somewhat suspicious.
You can beef all you want but I find them prompt AND efficient in sorting things out.... 3 weeks to settle on a lightening strike in Andratx... 2 days to fly someone out to Funchal to assess another claim and came to an agreement within a week of inspection.
I cannot fault them..
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Old 17-08-2013, 05:20   #5
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

I have nothing but good things to report about Pantaenius Germany. We have only had one claim in seven years and because it was a 'no fault' event (lightning strike nearby) there was no excess to pay. A surveyor was sent out to us from Athens within a day and he arranged for a haul out to inspect for damage. The claim was settled to our satisfaction. Our premium did not go up after the event.

I think the reputation of an insurance company should be based on their actions when a claim needs to be resolved, not on whether or not they accept your premium .
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Old 17-08-2013, 09:22   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I have nothing but good things to report about Pantaenius Germany. We have only had one claim in seven years and because it was a 'no fault' event (lightning strike nearby) there was no excess to pay. A surveyor was sent out to us from Athens within a day and he arranged for a haul out to inspect for damage. The claim was settled to our satisfaction. Our premium did not go up after the event.

I think the reputation of an insurance company should be based on their actions when a claim needs to be resolved, not on whether or not they accept your premium .
Yes +1 for Pantaenius Europe. More pricey then others but a far better policy.

Maybe US sailors are just more accident prone , I mean all that power boat usage can't b e good for sailing skills .......!!!!!!!!

I'm off now

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Old 23-08-2013, 14:16   #7
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

Thanks Lagoon4us.
Oh i speak off personal experience.. And it should be a no brainer when you have a fixed insured value on the boat.. No more no less than what you agreed on.. Even after pointing out the market value thy screw around.. And after talking to several reporters for boat magazines Iīm starting to see a pattern were its starting to be standard procedure to let everything to court..
Well you know they are going to screw you over when at the first personal meeting thy can’t look you in the eyes..
And boatman61.. Pantaenius brag about *getting new for old* so if thy claim that..??.. But I’m not asking for a new boat.. Only what I paid for so I can replace my boat…
And to give you something to think about... I didn’t have my insurance in the US.
thy offerd me 20% off market value whit the threat that if i dident axept that i get nothing.. leaving me whit no choice but to sue them.. and that was AFTER thy scraped my boat hindering me to salvage the value that was left in it.. so im less then happy..
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Old 23-08-2013, 14:33   #8
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

I got a quote from them, apparently before the $500k requirement, which I thought was a little on the high side when compared to others.

I asked them whether they could do a little better and they said they would get back to me, which they did by later telling me they were rescinding their previous offer.
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Old 28-03-2014, 15:09   #9
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

We have been using Pantaenius for 4 years... They were great when we were cruising and one of the cheapest quotes every year we were in Mexico and Central America. Once we got into the Caribbean the price remained the same, with the provision that we go about 30.5 N during hurricane season.

Backing up, when we were in Panama, we knew three boaters insured by Pantaenius who were struck by lightning and all three had a surveyor on their boats within a week and money within the month. Two of the three had over $60K US in damages.

Once we finished cruising last year, we purchased a home in SW Florida at 27 N on the Gulf side. That caused our rates to almost double in price and our cruising area was reduced to Florida and the Bahamas. But with that said no one else came under Pantaenius's quote and BoatUS was almost $2000 higher.

Our boat is insured at $355K and is definitely below 30.5 N degrees year round. We just renewed in February, so I am not sure why they would tell you that they would insure you.

One possibility is that we use a Insurance Broker (IMIS) instead of going directly to Pantaenius.
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Old 28-03-2014, 15:22   #10
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

Pantaenius has an excellent reputation from those I've talked to locally in South Florida. I find it interesting that the two blasting them are both new posters, the second using their first post on the site to support the first who was making his first post. And none of the veteran posters have yet expressed such an experience.

As to value in the event of a total loss, it is not going to exceed market value. Boats depreciate just as cars do. Stated value is not guaranteed value. What was paid for the boat does not establish it's current market value. Now that may seem unfair to some but it's just the way insurance on depreciating items works.

Back to the OP for this thread. That does surprise me, although Pantaenius is more aimed at higher valued boats. Insurers do decide in somewhat random manner it seems often to decide what policies they are willing to write.
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:25   #11
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

Hi Guys,
I have Pantaenius Insurance on my multihull and I have found them to be excellent to deal with. When the GFC hit I was buying boats from one side of the planet and running them back to Australia and selling them. One of the boats was a Beneteau 473 and the delivery captain managed to sink her in Fiji. The insurance company was not impressed, they mounted a rescue, a salvage operation and when it was all said and done, gave me a fair pay out and the wreck to sell. I am still insured with them, they have 10 clauses I think and most of the other insurance companies I have looked at, have upward of 100, which gets them out of paying you. Maybe they have had a bad run, in the gulf and are sick of picking up the tab in the hurricane belt which for the rest of us on the planet have to subsidise, so I do understand their business principles. But different strokes for different folks. Maybe try a different insurer and see if you can get a better deal.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:26   #12
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

Thanks for all of the feedback: interesting responses.

I'm starting to think that I must have caught somebody on a bad day when I called for a quote.

In the end I used a local broker to insure me through a larger company - it did take a week to get a written clarification to all the terms, but now we're insured within the US's economic waters. Half the premium of BoatUS.

When we look at leaving US waters again we'll have to reinsure, so we'll be sure to give Pantaenius another go.


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Old 01-05-2014, 07:04   #13
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

They have to figure they have gotten off easy the last few years with no major gulf and SE Atlantic hurricanes. Better raise rates whilst they can before the next big storm. I now that's not how it's "supposed" to work.
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:07   #14
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

You could try Offshore Risk Management in FL. The guy I was dealing with was Peter. He would insure us in the hurricane season in FL.
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:08   #15
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Re: Pantaenius marine insurance and the Gulf coast

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They have to figure they have gotten off easy the last few years with no major gulf and SE Atlantic hurricanes.
Did Sandy suddenly slip our mind? Just because it wasn't gulf or SE doesn't mean it doesn't count and didn't cost them dearly.

Yes, my home insurance went up considerable in South Florida as a result too. I'm in the worst flood classification in spite of the fact where my home is has never been damaged by a hurricane or flooded. But theoretically it could be.

One just has to shop insurance carefully, but most of all be sure what it does and doesn't cover. Understand the terms or get someone who does. Make sure you know all limits and exclusions and everything required on your part.

For those who say, "No one will cover this", someone will cover anything at some cost. So it's finding who will come closest to what you need at a price that's reasonable.

Tailor the policy to your needs but it's good to be with a carrier who can adjust it when your cruising area changes.

A good broker can be valuable, but only a good one who is very knowledgeable in the type insurance you're seeking. The home and auto broker isn't likely to help you much on a boat, nor on health insurance. In fact, sometimes he may know just enough to get you into trouble. Most boat insurers also specialize in certain sizes and types of use. Boat US is mostly under a certain size and primarily US waters as makes sense considering their customer. Pantaenius is mostly larger boats, higher dollar values, and covers the world.
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