Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-05-2014, 12:37   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Islamorada, FL
Boat: Tanger, Cascade 29'
Posts: 1
Owner Backing Out

I have kind of a confusing situation and am having a hard time thinking of how to proceed.
I talked to the owner a vessel down in the Florida Keys and we made an agreement that I would make payments until it was paid off. The owner told be that he would write up a contract/bill-of-sale so that we were protected and after making a few payments I still had not recieved it. When I told him that I would not make any more payments until a bill of sale arrived, he became irrate. He told me to get my belongings and get off the vessel until I made more payments. He also threatened to call law enforcement if he heard that I went back to my vessel and have me charged with a felony for grand theft.
As it sits I am stuck between a rock and a hard place because I want the boat but am not going to lose a bunch of money because I have no guarantee of getting the title. Is there any way for me to get my money back or to force him to send me a bill of sale? What are my options on how to handle the situation? I have sent a lot of money to the guy and don't want to lose it. It seems that he must have commited some crime here but I don't know how to pursue it. The other problem is that he lives in California so this is a cross-country deal.
Somebody please help me because this is not how things were supposed to go down.
__________________

__________________
Montana Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 12:44   #2
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,045
Re: Owner Backing Out

This was all verbal, and I bet with no reliable witnesses?
I really don't know about witnesses, but anything verbal is on the word of a Gentleman, and if said Gentleman isn't good for his word, you just learned what I hope isn't a too expensive lesson.

Note, I'm no lawyer, only one can answer your question, go see one, I bet it may not be too expensive for just their advice

On edit, I don't think it is your vessel either, so I would be very careful going back
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 12:48   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Refit in Port Townsend, WA
Boat: 1984 Slocum 43
Posts: 419
Re: Owner Backing Out

Without a contract, your options are going to be very limited. Obviously, your big mistake was making any payment at all without a contract. He can say that the payments he's received so far were merely rent on your occupancy. See a lawyer.
__________________
Mycroft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 12:49   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Owner Backing Out

Considering it is a 5 minute job for him to give you a Bill of Sale, the fact that he won't means he is either A) trying to screw you or B) trying to hose you. Both options end with you taking him to small claims court if he won't provide the paperwork.
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 12:56   #5
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
Re: Owner Backing Out

Do you have Amy sort of email exchange as proof? If not you are S.O.L

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 12:57   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,359
Re: Owner Backing Out

You've got to be kidding me....? ithout a bill of sale or contract you just rented a boat.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 13:02   #7
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Owner Backing Out

Little confused why you didn't get a bill of sale with balance due prior to your first payment and certainly before your second.

If you choose to make another payment you might put "4th purchase payment - balance due $XXX" at the bottom of your check. I'm not a lawyer but if he endorses and cashes the check at least you've got a mutually signed record of sorts. Since he lives in a different state I don't know how you proceed if he refuses to give you the title after all your payments are made.

Sounds like this may be one of those live and learn situations.
__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 13:03   #8
Registered User
 
Rhapsody-NS27's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: VA, boat: Deale, MD
Boat: 1981 Nor'sea 27
Posts: 1,409
Re: Owner Backing Out

As advised already, see what proof you have about the transaction. Print emails, and phone records showing calls back and forth. If you have ways to track the payments, (bank statements?), you may be able to take everything and try going to Small Claims court to recover the money you lost.

Like mentioned before, get a lawyer and take what evidence you can with you to show the lawyer to see if you have a valid case.
__________________
Daniel - Rhapsody Blog,
“A sailor’s joys are as simple as a child’s.” — Bernard Moitessier
"I don't need therapy, I just need my boat"
Rhapsody-NS27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:00   #9
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 1,231
Re: Owner Backing Out

You've been hosed....not the first time people have gotten snookered in Florida from verbal agreements. Perhaps you can tell him you've moved off the boat and then just live in it free till you feel like you got your money back. But don't trash the boat or open the seacocks in revenge. Leave it in good condition and take pictures/keep record of everything this time.
__________________
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:15   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Owner Backing Out

Why would an owner give the renter a bill of sale. This is essentially a contract for deed and should be spelled out in a written contract with terms, where the payments are going, and when and under what conditions the title will transfer.

This could be a case of the owner seeing a way to get some quick money or the seller pissing off the owner when he demands title for something he hasn't paid for.

At the least, the buyer and seller need to get together and write down what they agree to and then get an attorney to write up a formal agreement based on that.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:29   #11
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Owner Backing Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Kid View Post
Somebody please help me because this is not how things were supposed to go down.
I think many of us may have read the OP too quickly.

It sounds like Peter is right.

It's simpler than I originally thought.

The OP and owner agreed to payments over time. The OP asked the owner for what essentially would be a complete payment, i.e., bill of sale, but the payments aren't complete. No wonder the owner was irate (confused perhaps?).

How were things supposed to go down?

You want the boat and can stay on it. He wants his money.

What's so hard?

Follow Peter's advice, put it in writing and move on.

Good luck.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:36   #12
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Owner Backing Out

I've executed several "Bill of Sales" that specified payment terms with the Title transferrring upon the last payment. No drama...but if you don't have anything in writing...well....you are just renting with the "rent to Own" part....
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 14:49   #13
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Owner Backing Out

A totally verbal interstate sales contract with no proof of anything?

Montana, I hate to say it but I think you're screwed and all you can do is cut your losses.

The good news is that in Florida it is damned hard to evict a tenant, so it might be worth the price of a consultation with a local attorney (in Florida) to see just what you can or can't do. If you can assert status as a "tenant", you might be able to screw the owner back so hard he'll complete the sale as agreed.

But either consult a local attorney, or cut your losses and leave now.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 15:04   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 43 & S2 6.9
Posts: 963
Re: Owner Backing Out

Best advice so far I think is to consult an attorney. You really need a contract. I'd hope you agreed on terms verbally, so having you write up the contract really shouldn't be a problem, so you could do that and include it with your next payment and let him know before the next payment is sent, you'll need that sent back.

Also as stated, if you did any communication over email, that could be used to prove a good faith contract was in place. I'm no lawyer though, which is why you should seek the advice of one.

Sending in the next payment with details in the comment as suggested wouldn't hurt either - as far as him "kicking" you off the boat, as others have suggested, that's not so easy as you have made payments and can at least show there was some sort of agreement in place as he did cash those payments, he can't just evict you that easily.

If you do decide to remain, get copies of your checks - if he did send anyone over to evict you, you could show you were renting and were withholding latest payment until you got an agreement in place.

Again - seek out a lawyer though- an hour or two of their time may be very well worth it in the long run and even the short term.
__________________
maytrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 15:10   #15
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Owner Backing Out

The owner wanted to "kick him off the boat" 'cuz he was essentially asking for the title before he finished his payments.

Peter's still right.

KISS
__________________

__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Backing Out of a Berth Under Power davefromoregon General Sailing Forum 8 15-04-2011 09:36
Deck Backing Material and Width Piper'sGirl Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 13 06-06-2008 09:19
Starboard Backing Plates cburger Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 16 12-03-2008 15:29
Backing Plates JohnnyC Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 15 14-06-2007 21:13
through hull backing block jerry f Construction, Maintenance & Refit 12 24-08-2005 23:40



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.