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Old 18-03-2013, 07:05   #1
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Newer or older boat?

Hi everybody!


As I plan to escape the land-life for awhile I've now been reading posts here for quite some time...with great joy I must say, a great resource for inspiration. thanks!

The amount of questions regarding the prospect of taking on the seas are piling up.
One major thing I realize is that I have to get a boat
So I would appreciate input from experienced sailors regarding if newer boats are less quality than older?
The reason for asking is that I plan to take my whole family out cruising the world and I do not ever want to abandon ship having 4 kids + wife onboard, seaworthiness is top priority, and after reading tons of material I sense that the industry are under stress producing ever cheaper boats.

Also as I want to free myself from the burden of owning excessive things I want to go as simple as possible, no spending frenzy, just fishing, sailing and passing time..
Any thoughts?


Thanks & regards
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Old 18-03-2013, 07:16   #2
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pirate Re: Newer or older boat?

No one ever wants to 'Abandon Ship'...
But the odds are 50/50 that one day you may have to.. aint no guarantee's out there.. bit like driving to work.. **** happens.
Best look for strength, comfort, ease of handling and reliability/simplicity of the main components.. hull/deck/rig/sails/engine.
Everything else is secondary IMHO...
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Old 18-03-2013, 07:57   #3
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Re: Newer or older boat?

If only it was that simple. If you buy a used boat, plan on a significant "spending frenzy" to take place immediately following your purchase. Every used boat will require many more repairs than you can discover during a survey, assuming you plan to have one done.
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Old 18-03-2013, 08:42   #4
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Welcome to the forum, Kapten Buff, Buying an older used boat carries certain risks. If you can take the time to thoroughly examine the vessel, you may be able to discern what will be needed to bring her up to snuff, and work out how much it might cost you. Usually things cost 5 times as much as you think and take 10 times longer to repair. I prefer the workmanship of the boat builders in the 1970s for fiberglass boats. I have an advantage of being able to effect most of my own repairs, and the ones I can't, I know people who can and they cut me a break 'cause I'm such a nice guy. One thing about it once you finish refitting your vessel, you will be intimate with every aspect of the vessel and know what makes her tick. That knowledge can be priceless in an emergency or less than ideal weather conditions.
In your country, they used to build a very heavy duty double ended wooden trawler, that was converted from sail to engine, and some people I know bought those and converted them back to sailing and made yachts out of them, they were very strong.
As everyone here knows, I like the Skookum built boats. They made a 47' yacht that is very seaworthy, sea kindly and hell for stout. It was one of Ed Monk Sr.s last designs and it is a doozie. Goes through the water smooth. Though she be heavy, she be fast too. 1.75" thick hull below the waterline. Solid glass.
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Old 18-03-2013, 09:34   #5
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Re: Newer or older boat?

I think anyone who buys and older boat instead of a newer boat is mad.
But people still do it. It's the only area of marketing in the world where old **** heaps get some currency against new boats.

Thus I try not to ever comment on these threads.

Be as deluded as you like.


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Old 18-03-2013, 09:54   #6
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Weather is your main concern, but things like keel bolts, rudder attachments , seacocks and Chainplates are in second place. Focus on those, when you leave, spend some time "easy cruising" somewhere like Florida to Trinidad until you learn and adapt. It's easy to work around the weather on shorter trips. Fiji to NZ is harder!
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Old 18-03-2013, 11:08   #7
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Re: Newer or older boat?

I must be mad as a hatter then.
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Old 18-03-2013, 11:16   #8
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I think anyone who buys and older boat instead of a newer boat is mad.
Agreed. There's something magical about a kevlar-reinforced hull with a built-in collision bulkhead.

Yes, it's true that they don't build them like they used to. Ask the old-is-better guys about blisters. I haul my boat every two years and have hauled it three times now. Still haven't had any blisters.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 18-03-2013, 11:25   #9
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Re: Newer or older boat?

First of all the chances of having to abandon ship are very small but because the consequences are large we all do certain things to prepare for it. New or used. Depending on your budget and your personal skills a case can be made for either. A better case could be made for a used boat that was a few years old that had a lot of quality cruising equipment added. The reality of the situation is that almost all cruisers have purchased used boats and have refitted as needed. The downside of buying new is that you will have a major hit on depreciation and your buying a base model that will cost you a lot of money to equip for cruising. If you have lots of spare coin and you don't need to budget then it would be fun to buy new and get everything done just the way you like it, either way have fun. Cheers
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Old 18-03-2013, 11:39   #10
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapten Buff View Post
seaworthiness is top priority
No boat is idiot (Skipper) proof - 80% of boats (of a size you would want to go long distance on / for extended periods) would suffice, whether older or newer.........in ye olden days - 60's / 70's / 80's they built a lot of stuff that was never intended to last well into the 21st Century - old don't always mean better, but nor does new!........how "seaworthy" the boat turns out to be will depend on a combination of condition, Skipper, boat use / plans and likely a tad of modern equipment will also help (whatever the boat vintage!)......whilst "good luck" is not a requirement, the absence of "Bad Luck" certainly helps - but often enough can help self avoid much of that with some prior knowledge, a degree of caution on adventures (especially early on in yer learning curve) and a bit of wit from the Skipper when enroute.......help from folks onboard as crew also very useful, not just being passengers.
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Old 18-03-2013, 15:42   #11
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Boats are like houses - there are bad new ones and good old ones. Depreciation, is a painful thing and it shows when you realize you are buying a hole in the water to throw money into. So...welcome to the hole in the water club.

Economics always will play a part. Seaworthy at what cost? 20,000 or 2,000,000? New gets you new technology, as a technologist the first two generations of a product, make you unofficial members of the test team. People may believe the Apple Newton was ahead of its time, but try finding parts for one. However, old can be "proven" or just plain old.

Many of us are shore-sighter weekenders at best. I spend about 110 days a year on board, but Blue water is different. I suggest the writings by:
Tom Neale - he did what you sound like you are planning.
Larry and Lin Pardey - The Self Sufficient Sailor is a classic
Hal Roth - How to sail around the World.
And if like many of us "new" has too many zeros after it: John Kretschmer's Used Boat Notebook and anything Don Casey/Nigel Calder ever wrote.

Then go to marinas and talk to people. See up close what is described. Nothing makes you appreciate seaworthy, like trying to drain water from the fuel in 10' seas, upside down in the cockpit engine compartment.

In addition, you will need to plan for going overboard. Hope for the best plan for the worst.

Finally, the best advice I got was on this forum - new or used, presume 25% of the purchase cost on top of the purchase for outfitting. Less is good - but the number was just about dead on for me.
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Old 19-03-2013, 02:01   #12
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Smile Re: Newer or older boat?

Many thanks for input, making decisions is all about evaluating different opinions and experiences.

As everybody has their set agenda I understand different opinions exist and should do. My objective is to just get away from the rat-race/civilization for some time(hopefully forever and therefore deploy a on low-tech yet safe sailing everywhere with family approach. I simply want my kids to see something else than TV..
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Old 19-03-2013, 03:32   #13
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Re: Newer or older boat?

I am a fan of older, well built and sea-kindly boats. However, everything on a boat has a relatively fixed lifespan and the replacement schedule should be budgeted for. Spend 2/3's of the available money on the boat and keep a minimum of 1/3rd for maintenance. And that only applies if the boat has been well maintained especially the engine, sails and rigging, avoid project boats. If you have the money buy a new sea- kindly boat.

Start slowly and gain experience as you go. I would buy a boat in the US or Caribbean and cruise the Caribbean for a a couple of years before I attempted ocean crossings with children.

For my children a sailboat was a means of getting from one beach or snorkling spot to the next! Preferably on a daily basis.
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Old 19-03-2013, 03:46   #14
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefaa View Post
Boats are like houses - there are bad new ones and good old ones. Depreciation, is a painful thing and it shows when you realize you are buying a hole in the water to throw money into. So...welcome to the hole in the water club.

Economics always will play a part. Seaworthy at what cost? 20,000 or 2,000,000? New gets you new technology, as a technologist the first two generations of a product, make you unofficial members of the test team. People may believe the Apple Newton was ahead of its time, but try finding parts for one. However, old can be "proven" or just plain old.

Many of us are shore-sighter weekenders at best. I spend about 110 days a year on board, but Blue water is different. I suggest the writings by:
Tom Neale - he did what you sound like you are planning.
Larry and Lin Pardey - The Self Sufficient Sailor is a classic
Hal Roth - How to sail around the World.
And if like many of us "new" has too many zeros after it: John Kretschmer's Used Boat Notebook and anything Don Casey/Nigel Calder ever wrote.

Then go to marinas and talk to people. See up close what is described. Nothing makes you appreciate seaworthy, like trying to drain water from the fuel in 10' seas, upside down in the cockpit engine compartment.

In addition, you will need to plan for going overboard. Hope for the best plan for the worst.

Finally, the best advice I got was on this forum - new or used, presume 25% of the purchase cost on top of the purchase for outfitting. Less is good - but the number was just about dead on for me.
This post is spot on. the 25% rule is correct. Buy old? Probably the 25% gets larger. Buy newer? - maybe a little less but don't count on it.

I'm readying a 2006 Jeanneau for an RTW right now. I'm figuring on spending dkr. 250 (the used boat cost me dkr. 900) so the 25% is right again. What am I buying? Big ticket items:
New anchors
New electronics
Watermaker
new Propeller
Life raft
new dinghy & outboard
SSB radio
Iridium telephone
Epirb & sart
Spare set of sails

Plus a lot of little stuff - spare engine parts, spare halyards and sheets, Gale rider, series drogue and lots lots more

I'm emptying the bank account in a hurry
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Old 19-03-2013, 04:25   #15
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Re: Newer or older boat?

What I've learned so far is that it probably makes sense to look for a well-maintained and equipped pretty new yet seaworthy vessel.
I do not want to start any debate regarding brands understanding it's effects, but nevertheless I do not mind getting a few examples about what to look for, and why?
Any personal experiences are welcome.
I have yet to find a site where owners can put in their personal reviews of boats, there are many such sites for cars, which probably makes car manufacturers a little more concerned regarding quality

And yes, I do understand all the parts regarding maintenance and boat owners costs in general, as well as long keel/fin, spade rudder risks etc ...

Anyway, thanks all for a fantastic site!
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