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Old 19-03-2013, 04:57   #16
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There's lots of good advice given so far. Here's how I see it, everyone has a budget even if your the Prince of Dubai. So once you decide what your needs are you can look at new boats that meet that need and old boats. You may or may not find that what suits your needs is out of budget when buying new.
There's no point in comparing a used 37 Hanse Christian to a new 35 Hunter. You know what I mean ;-)

For us, if we were to buy the boat we have with something comparable new it would be many times the price we paid, not just double or triple. Then we would need to fit her out the way we want.

Here's another thing to think about if considering buying new.
Theres not many builders that provide a new boat that's turn key to cruise long distance but there are some. Even then not every builder will do everything and he may want you to set up some items systems once its been delivered to you.
Next thing is it more common than not that a new boat will need a good shake down and have a number of things that will need to be attended to before its ready for a long voyage. Remember its not like a new car. Especially the more sea worthy blue water cruiser type are more like a custom build by process rather than assembly line production. Not everything goes to plan and many have had to take a considerable time with a cooperative builder to get it right. Others have been lucky but you should ensure you have budgeted contingency time in your cruising plans. Old or new (likely you will need more time with an older vessel)
If you buy new and can get a blue water cruiser, set up for long distance cruising and free of issues with a shake down then you will be paying a considerable premium. ( Although there are a few builders that provide relative good value in this area if your budget allows.) Also you will be at the mercy of the builder as far as the systems implemented and options offered. This may or may not be a bad thing. What I mean is you may or may not get everything that suits your style of cruising. Just as with a used vessel. Of course on a used vessel you may be able to afford to completely change the system again, well depending on your budget you may be able to do this on a new one too.

So what I'm saying is, yes a used cruiser may need to be considered a bit like a foundation to build off but in many ways so is a new vessel. Of corse a new foundation usually does not need work where a used vessel usually has items of the foundation to tend to.

It really comes down to budget and what you want your finished vessel to be.

As far as blistering goes well it is very true that modern understanding of construction techniques can eliminate or substantially reduce the possibility of its occurring but and this is a huge but. Most new boats do not use them or only use a portion of what should be done even on very expensive vessels. Only a handful of builders do all aspects to minimize the chance of hydrolysis/osmosis and this comes at another premium. Don't think so? Just check how long their warranty is for blistering than remember that many of the old boats that blistered went a number of years before showing any signs.

So if your budget is large enough then by all means there are some great new vessels out there and certainly you could employ all the top in their field people to fit her out with anything that might be needed that was not provided by the builder. Of course if staying simple there may be very little extras if you've selected the right vessel.

I think you are definitely on the right track about keeping things simple. After giving enough time to adapt you feel you need to add something you likely will have a better idea of what and how you want that item or system to function.

All said and done for us going used means we can. Going new means it would never happen.

Apologies for the length of my post.

Fair winds
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Old 19-03-2013, 19:32   #17
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
No one ever wants to 'Abandon Ship'...
But the odds are 50/50 that one day you may have to..
50/50?!? Can I ask what you are basing that on? I have never heard any kind of statistic that high for a catastrophic accident for sailboats...

I realize you may be using this just as an expression but that is a huge percentage...
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Old 19-03-2013, 19:59   #18
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Re: Newer or older boat?

And remember that behind all your decisions should be a good attempt to buy quality. Old saying in our family, "If you buy quality, you only cry once". You can buy a new 50 foot cruising boat for $350,000. or you can buy a new 50 foot cruising boat for $1,000000. the difference between these prices is not size its quality. Sometimes a wise decision is to buy a higher quality boat that is used rather than a new lesser quality new boat.
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Old 19-03-2013, 20:02   #19
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Re: Newer or older boat?

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50/50?!? Can I ask what you are basing that on? I have never heard any kind of statistic that high for a catastrophic accident for sailboats...

I realize you may be using this just as an expression but that is a huge percentage...
Delivery skipper. He's advertising.
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Old 20-03-2013, 07:45   #20
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Re: Newer or older boat?

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Delivery skipper. He's advertising.

LOL that's funny!
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:05   #21
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Re: Newer or older boat?

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I think anyone who buys and older boat instead of a newer boat is mad.
But people still do it. It's the only area of marketing in the world where old **** heaps get some currency against new boats.

Thus I try not to ever comment on these threads.

Be as deluded as you like.


Mark
I agree.

The thing about older boats is that you get stuck with all the things the various owners have done to it over the years. Either works aganist you as high price for an old boat or as poor maintenance that you get to fix.
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:54   #22
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Re: Newer or older boat?

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Hi everybody!

So I would appreciate input from experienced sailors regarding if newer boats are less quality than older?
Welcome to the forum. My crystal ball says a Hunter vs. Colin Archer design is coming...
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Agreed. There's something magical about a kevlar-reinforced hull with a built-in collision bulkhead.

Yes, it's true that they don't build them like they used to. Ask the old-is-better guys about blisters. I haul my boat every two years and have hauled it three times now. Still haven't had any blisters.

Welcome to the forum.
Oh yes...magical for sure. They never have problems. Oh yes and please do ask me about my almost 40 year old hull and blisters. Still don't have any. Am I not waiting long enough?
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:04   #23
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Re: Newer or older boat?

It's not only new vs. used, it includes the "layout" of the boat, it's ergonomic features if you will.

Nigel Calder's Cruisers Handbook is a good read about those features. Little details can haunt you, really: good sea berths are way different than those in a marina or when anchored.

Finding info about boats: most types of boats have "associations" online that feature questions & answers and maybe even features and history. When you start deciding on boats, go look them up.
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:08   #24
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Re: Newer or older boat?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
No one ever wants to 'Abandon Ship'...
But the odds are 50/50 that one day you may have to.. aint no guarantee's out there.. bit like driving to work.. **** happens.
Best look for strength, comfort, ease of handling and reliability/simplicity of the main components.. hull/deck/rig/sails/engine.
Everything else is secondary IMHO...

50/50 odds???
That's interesting.
Where do you get your stats?
This means that 50% of boaters end up abandoning ship.
It's definitely not 50/50.
It is more like 1 in 500,000.
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:15   #25
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Re: Newer or older boat?

In the end, if like most people, research the size of boat you truly need and the range of cost to buy that particular vessel. The decision will be made for you.
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:16   #26
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Another thing to consider when making a buying decision is what your going to use the boat for. Most new production boats are used primarily for the charter business and are "beds" and "heads" with very little storage for long term cruising. Even the owners versions are often short on good storage. If your going to coastal cruise or your duration on the boat is for shorter periods of time then a production boat will do the job just fine.
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:16   #27
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Re: Newer or older boat?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Welcome to the forum. My crystal ball says a Hunter vs. Colin Archer design is coming...


Oh yes...magical for sure. They never have problems. Oh yes and please do ask me about my almost 40 year old hull and blisters. Still don't have any. Am I not waiting long enough?
Thanks!

I have understood that Hallberg Rassy are top notch regarding build quality, and also that older often means blue water design, with a long-keel, shaft etc...
My impression so far is that some time ago seaworthyness came first the rest second while today there are other criterias coming first, such as cramming in berths, light weight, design, fast sailing capabilities etc... not to mention cutting costs and trying to stay in business..

Anyway, I am glad there are boats available for every taste..

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Old 20-03-2013, 11:21   #28
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Re: Newer or older boat?

everybody likes something different than his neighbor.
what you sail is what you like--to look at, to handle, and to repair.
if this forum declares you must like XXX brand boat and you buy it and do not like anything about it, isnt easy to resell these days. something about a bad market.
you need to go out and sail everything then decide what it is you can live with and what you can change and where to go with it.
there is no cruise ready boat--not new not old. cruise ready is what you do to the boat before you leave the marina for where ever and how far the skipper is able to tolerate sailing the boat.
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:57   #29
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Seeing we are in the process of having a new boat built I can add a little information as far as buying a new boat.

When you order a new boat from the factory the boat will come as a basic package. Example if you order a cutter rig the head sail may be on a furler but the stay sail will be hank on. You can order the furler for stay sail and you will be charged price of furler and man hours to put it on. In our example the company gives a base list that the boat comes with and also a list of items they are willing to add at cost on the item and man hours to install. We check the boxes of things we want added and the company does the work. There are many things we want not on the add on list so we put in a bid to have the company do the work before we take ownership of the vessel. Example, all of our electronics are of our choice and we send the list of what we want. The company buys those items and installs them where and how we want them and we are charged on the final bill. We want our radar on a stern pole and with a tilt instead of radar on mast. The company supplies our needs. I'm sure there are many companies building boats that do not go to that effort to please the customer but I think where you are in Europe you would find it true that most companies will do all your add on. If you buy a new boat from a broker the broker usually has contractors that they use to install all the extras. That would be more worrisome to me than having the company do it as the building company hopefully has a lot of pride in their work.

Also a new boat has lots of small costs before you set sail that a used boat might not. A new boat will not have spare parts that you will need, it will not have cookware, dishes, fitted sheets, protective covers for your interior cushions, spare engine parts, extra halyards and sheets, second anchor or 3rd anchor, well I think you get the idea, be prepared to buy lots of stuff that migh already be on a used boat. I know on the last used boat we bought years ago we had about 90 % of the spare parts sold with the boat to us and a lot of goodies already on board. But it was an older boat that had just done a circumnavigation and needed new rigging, new engine, new electronics, lots of new wire, new sails etc. Two years of doing the work and having her ready to do another circumnavigation. With the new boat we hope to do about a month of serious sea trials to find any problems covered by warranty and not covered by Warranty before we head off on 5 or 6 years of cruising again.

Good luck on your choice, I think you will be rewarded anyway you decide to do it.
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Old 20-03-2013, 12:56   #30
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Re: Newer or older boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapten Buff View Post
Thanks!

I have understood that Hallberg Rassy are top notch regarding build quality, and also that older often means blue water design, with a long-keel, shaft etc...
My impression so far is that some time ago seaworthyness came first the rest second while today there are other criterias coming first, such as cramming in berths, light weight, design, fast sailing capabilities etc... not to mention cutting costs and trying to stay in business..

Anyway, I am glad there are boats available for every taste..

There are many threads here which are very polarized in thinking. But most find a happy middle course. Like I say...count your pennies, find the smallest boat you can live safely with, that you can afford and go.
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