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Old 14-08-2015, 23:39   #91
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

Plan, plan , plan, then work your plan in a trial. Have seen this work several times.
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Old 14-08-2015, 23:48   #92
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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We seem to be talking past each other here. Based on your first post, you basically said that you can't make money on the internet because there isn't enough money in advertising (I totally agree) and business development on the internet is impossible (I definitely don't agree). You've now also added that self publishing books on the internet doesn't work either (I also don't agree).



You've assumed that I'm naive and am swallowing a load of garbage from the only people who do make money on the internet: those selling the idea of how to make money on the internet. That's pretty insulting, frankly, but I'll try to look past it.



I'm supposed to be working, so please forgive me for not citing with lots of links, but here are some examples of real people with real products making a good living with either passive or freelance type business models:
  • Pat Flynn famously made 6 figures selling LEED exam study guides before he became a "how to make money on the internet" guy
  • The evernote essentials e-book guy was able to quit his job and makes very good money
  • The live scrivener fast guy did the sae
  • Active Captain makes good money
  • I can think of two different digital photography sites that sell courses and books
  • There's a bass guy who sells courses on how to learn bass
  • paleo plan guy sells menus and recipes
  • nerd fitness guy sells work out plans, ebooks, etc
  • zen habits sells books and products
  • my accountant is one of many working from home for a company that does all of their business development online



These are just off the top of my head. They all make a full time income. Plenty of people are also working as freelance designers, coders, etc. and have their whole business through the web.



Will I give up in frustration? Maybe. But to suggest that it's impossible to make money using the internet seems a bit silly given all the regular people who are doing just that.



I'm sure there are thousands more examples of people who've tried and failed. However, you can say the same thing about restaurant owners. Just because 90% of new restaurant owners fail doesn't mean that you can't make money selling food. It just means it isn't that easy to do it!



If I fail in 4 years, it won't be because it's impossible to make money on the internet. It'll be because I didn't do the right things or put in enough work.

Sure, there are a number of traditional jobs that can be worked via the Internet. But you were specifically talking about setting up "passive income streams" as opposed to labor services like coding that can be done remotely. Competent labor services always sell--the only risk is in connecting with employers and negotiating wage, and being able to deliver 100% of value remotely.

Passive income streams don't work beyond a few anecdotal examples--all of which are novel so copycats needn't apply. There is certainly no sure way to set them up. I've done 95% of my work from home via the Internet for the past 20 years. But it's a typical job, and like any typical job I occasionally have to meet with people in real life, especially where new business is concerned, which is why I can't just weigh anchor and go cruising.


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Old 15-08-2015, 07:22   #93
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

"What about chartering your boat for hire wherever you are? "
I think only prostitutes can "hire wherever you are" and even they have to pay off the local authorities in one way or another, every place they go. You might find that running a charter boat business is somewhat more complex than prostitution, especially on the additional necessary paperwork end of the business.
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Old 15-08-2015, 09:53   #94
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Sure, there are a number of traditional jobs that can be worked via the Internet. But you were specifically talking about setting up "passive income streams" as opposed to labor services like coding that can be done remotely. Competent labor services always sell--the only risk is in connecting with employers and negotiating wage, and being able to deliver 100% of value remotely.

Passive income streams don't work beyond a few anecdotal examples--all of which are novel so copycats needn't apply. There is certainly no sure way to set them up. I've done 95% of my work from home via the Internet for the past 20 years. But it's a typical job, and like any typical job I occasionally have to meet with people in real life, especially where new business is concerned, which is why I can't just weigh anchor and go cruising.


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Most folks are not making money on advertising these days. You need to have something tangible - that can be services or products. Review sites and good old store fronts continue to rake in good money.
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Old 15-08-2015, 10:06   #95
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Most folks are not making money on advertising these days. You need to have something tangible - that can be services or products. Review sites and good old store fronts continue to rake in good money.

Bingo...
We were making a few hundred dollars a month from Google Click ads on our blog 2007-2012, but Google **** caned click ads on sites like SailBlogs after seeing the same readers click on the ads over and over as a way to buy the blogger a taco. Ads on blogs are moving to outcome based not clicks.

You need a product...a drop ship product that you never touch or see but make money from selling and there are PLENTY of those type of opportunities out there. 1/3 of the marine vendors these days selling stuff online don't have a store. They just have a drop ship website that can be managed from a boat anywhere around the world.
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Old 15-08-2015, 10:24   #96
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Bingo...
We were making a few hundred dollars a month from Google Click ads on our blog 2007-2012, but Google **** caned click ads on sites like SailBlogs after seeing the same readers click on the ads over and over as a way to buy the blogger a taco. Ads on blogs are moving to outcome based not clicks.

You need a product...a drop ship product that you never touch or see but make money from selling and there are PLENTY of those type of opportunities out there. 1/3 of the marine vendors these days selling stuff online don't have a store. They just have a drop ship website that can be managed from a boat anywhere around the world.
Exactly. The product doesn't need to be physical, though. Lots of people are making good money on digital products such as books and courses.

For physical products, Fulfilled by Amazon seems to be the new frontier. People are killing it on there. It isn't easy and you need to take a risk (buy some stock), but it is really working for some.

Ad income is still alive, but you need to be somewhere around a million hits a month to make a full time income at it. Some people like hundred days of real food and space news can do this, but most of us will never get to that traffic, certainly not with a sailing blog.

Affiliate niche sites have been slammed in the last couple years by Google algorithm changes, but I have a personal friend who is still making $400 a month on a site based on affiliate income for camping gear. It's completely hands off as he's hired a UK based writer for $40/month to keep the content fresh.

He won't get rich on this one site, but he's now working on his next site for which he's planning on selling a course and hopefully can make a bit more. In another year, he'll probably be up to between $1000 and $1500 per month net profit which is enough for many to cruise on.

I guess mstrebe's point that copycats need not apply might be true in a very narrow sense. You can't exactly copy somebody, but you can improve on what they're doing or you can choose a slightly different niche. It would be pretty difficult to claim that we're all too late since all the best ideas are all used up. There are just far too many counter-examples. It's like saying that nobody should write books because they've all been written already.
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Old 15-08-2015, 12:58   #97
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
Exactly. The product doesn't need to be physical, though. Lots of people are making good money on digital products such as books and courses.



For physical products, Fulfilled by Amazon seems to be the new frontier. People are killing it on there. It isn't easy and you need to take a risk (buy some stock), but it is really working for some.



Ad income is still alive, but you need to be somewhere around a million hits a month to make a full time income at it. Some people like hundred days of real food and space news can do this, but most of us will never get to that traffic, certainly not with a sailing blog.



Affiliate niche sites have been slammed in the last couple years by Google algorithm changes, but I have a personal friend who is still making $400 a month on a site based on affiliate income for camping gear. It's completely hands off as he's hired a UK based writer for $40/month to keep the content fresh.



He won't get rich on this one site, but he's now working on his next site for which he's planning on selling a course and hopefully can make a bit more. In another year, he'll probably be up to between $1000 and $1500 per month net profit which is enough for many to cruise on.



I guess mstrebe's point that copycats need not apply might be true in a very narrow sense. You can't exactly copy somebody, but you can improve on what they're doing or you can choose a slightly different niche. It would be pretty difficult to claim that we're all too late since all the best ideas are all used up. There are just far too many counter-examples. It's like saying that nobody should write books because they've all been written already.

I guess we don't disagree much at all. If you're talking about making dozens of dollars a month, then sure, much of this works. I've got an old humor blog that's still doing $400/year after a decade of neglect, and by that criteria my self-published book is a raging success.

But none of that comes close to paying for my boat. What does come close to paying for my boat is chartering it out--ownership of a capital asset that others rent is the age-old mechanism for making passive income. It's managed by a chartering company an all I have to do is absorb the risk. Ultimately it won't make money because of its depreciation, so this only amounts to offsetting a loss. I also have some rental properties that make money with very little effort--but they're real, actual, estate. People have to live somewhere. They don't have to read an amateur-hour e-book about trick photography.

My real point is that there's not actually such a thing as passive income online except for a few lottery ticket winners. Are there rock bands that make money? Sure. Will yours? Nope. Too many people trying to do it and not enough market for all of them. The winners in that space were lucky and talented, not just talented. In the online space, looking for something that doesn't involve either talent or luck, much less both, is a waste of time.

All of the things that generate worthwhile money are real labor: writing a book, or e-guide, or whatever is work. If it's valuable, it's work. Setting up click-through affiliate sites to sell drop-ship merch in some forgotten niche is NOT fire and forget, because within weeks someone else will find the niche and start squeezing you. Failure to respond to that is death for that site. You can play whack-a-mole forever looking for free money, or you can do actual work and get actual paid.


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Old 15-08-2015, 13:11   #98
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
I guess we don't disagree much at all. If you're talking about making dozens of dollars a month, then sure, much of this works. I've got an old humor blog that's still doing $400/year after a decade of neglect, and by that criteria my self-published book is a raging success.

But none of that comes close to paying for my boat. What does come close to paying for my boat is chartering it out--ownership of a capital asset that others rent is the age-old mechanism for making passive income. It's managed by a chartering company an all I have to do is absorb the risk. Ultimately it won't make money because of its depreciation, so this only amounts to offsetting a loss. I also have some rental properties that make money with very little effort--but they're real, actual, estate. People have to live somewhere. They don't have to read an amateur-hour e-book about trick photography.

My real point is that there's not actually such a thing as passive income online except for a few lottery ticket winners. Are there rock bands that make money? Sure. Will yours? Nope. Too many people trying to do it and not enough market for all of them. The winners in that space were lucky and talented, not just talented. In the online space, looking for something that doesn't involve either talent or luck, much less both, is a waste of time.

All of the things that generate worthwhile money are real labor: writing a book, or e-guide, or whatever is work. If it's valuable, it's work. Setting up click-through affiliate sites to sell drop-ship merch in some forgotten niche is NOT fire and forget, because within weeks someone else will find the niche and start squeezing you. Failure to respond to that is death for that site. You can play whack-a-mole forever looking for free money, or you can do actual work and get actual paid.


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Old 15-08-2015, 15:10   #99
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

For folks with a technical background doing freelance work via the internet, upwork.com is one site is an option. Myself I keep Dekat in kibble by doing MEP engineering/cad from the boat via internet. A cell hotspot with external antenna and a monthly autocad subscription and I'm able to bring in just enough, as long as there is cell service. It's not big bucks, but then my monthly costs are tiny.

writing, editing, website programming, that engineering thingy, etc, there is work out there. Oh generally at 25% of work in the office rates. But that is sweet when done at anchor. I'll not get rich, bur then I'll not starve either.

The Key is having reliable internet and that is a problem in many locations
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Old 15-08-2015, 15:25   #100
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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For folks with a technical background doing freelance work via the internet, upwork.com is one site is an option. Myself I keep Dekat in kibble by doing MEP engineering/cad from the boat via internet. A cell hotspot with external antenna and a monthly autocad subscription and I'm able to bring in just enough, as long as there is cell service. It's not big bucks, but then my monthly costs are tiny.

writing, editing, website programming, that engineering thingy, etc, there is work out there. Oh generally at 25% of work in the office rates. But that is sweet when done at anchor. I'll not get rich, bur then I'll not starve either.

The Key is having reliable internet and that is a problem in many locations
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Old 15-08-2015, 15:38   #101
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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I guess we don't disagree much at all. If you're talking about making dozens of dollars a month, then sure, much of this works. I've got an old humor blog that's still doing $400/year after a decade of neglect, and by that criteria my self-published book is a raging success.

But none of that comes close to paying for my boat. What does come close to paying for my boat is chartering it out--ownership of a capital asset that others rent is the age-old mechanism for making passive income. It's managed by a chartering company an all I have to do is absorb the risk. Ultimately it won't make money because of its depreciation, so this only amounts to offsetting a loss. I also have some rental properties that make money with very little effort--but they're real, actual, estate. People have to live somewhere. They don't have to read an amateur-hour e-book about trick photography.

My real point is that there's not actually such a thing as passive income online except for a few lottery ticket winners. Are there rock bands that make money? Sure. Will yours? Nope. Too many people trying to do it and not enough market for all of them. The winners in that space were lucky and talented, not just talented. In the online space, looking for something that doesn't involve either talent or luck, much less both, is a waste of time.

All of the things that generate worthwhile money are real labor: writing a book, or e-guide, or whatever is work. If it's valuable, it's work. Setting up click-through affiliate sites to sell drop-ship merch in some forgotten niche is NOT fire and forget, because within weeks someone else will find the niche and start squeezing you. Failure to respond to that is death for that site. You can play whack-a-mole forever looking for free money, or you can do actual work and get actual paid.


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I'm struggling to see why we're having so much trouble here. I'm obviously not saying that you can only make 12 bucks a month with online businesses. The 10 examples I gave are all making north of 6 figures. Most of them are working their asses off, some don't have to anymore. It depends on the business itself.

I'm sure that if I gave you a hundred more, you'd still tell me that they are the freak exceptions.

I think you believe that I'm claiming some magic easy button where you follow a pretty little formula and are guaranteed a comfortable income without any hard work or talent. I'm not. Not at all.

What I am saying is that if you are reasonably smart and put in a ton of work up front, you can develop a real income that will let you cruise. Not everyone will be successful, like in any business, but you don't need to be a genius and you certainly have a better chance than playing the lottery.

You are assuming that these people aren't providing value. Your comment about a "an amateur-hour e-book about trick photography" shows that.

So let's use that one as an example since I know a bit about one of the two digital photography websites I cited above. The owner has spent years providing free value and building a loyal following. Her customers have purchased and expensive DSLR and then discovered they have no idea how to use it, or they are trying to take their photography to a new level and get paid for it.

She had a few inexpensive products, some of them in the form of well designed and written ebooks. When she decided to take it to the next level, she re-invested $13k of the income she'd made from the site to hire a professional videographer to do a video course. She made the money back in less than 2 weeks and is now making over 100k per year.

Was it easy? No. Did she do it without talent and a ton of hard work? No. Is it passive? Let's just dump the semantics. I'd say yes because she can go away for a month and people are still buying her course. She still has to make sure she maintains the site and ensures good fresh content is going up and people are being cared for. It isn't like there's no work. She is working, it's just not freelance hours for dollars. Call it whatever you like, but it is certainly a business she could cruise with if she had the interest in doing so.

Maybe 5% of first time entrepreneurs with brick and mortar businesses are making money after 5 years. The number might be more like 0.5% when it comes to online business because there's zero risk other than your own time, so a lot of people give it a go for a few months, usually without a clue of what they're doing.

It's still a business, so you still need to learn a ton and work hard, but that doesn't mean it's all smoke and mirrors. The many successful online business owners I've heard interviewed are just like you and me. They're normal people who worked hard, figured things out and are enjoying the flexibility of their new lifestyle.

They did actual work and now they're getting actual paid. They took the risk and did the work up front hoping for eventual payback. It worked out for them. It won't work everyone, but it is certainly a viable alternative for cruisers along with online freelance work, owning a business back on land, renting property, or living off investment income.
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Old 28-08-2015, 23:13   #102
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

Is there water in Kansas?
If your husband is going to do boat or engine work, he will need lots of practical experience after school. People get a mechanic when they have a problem. Schools teach how an engine works but little on problem solving on the vast numbers of engine designs. Sorry, but I wouldn't let a recent student touch my engines.
There's an old saying in the trades: People that can't do the job, teach it.
As others said, most cruisers either do their own work or trade for it.
Liveaboard in a port city and get a job where you can gain experience. If you want to work on the water, commercial fish or get licensed.
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Old 10-09-2015, 13:47   #103
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

You mentioned that your husband was going to go to marine/engine school. A suggestion that I have for y'all is learn to work on refrigeration. From the many you tube videos that I have seen, and the experience I have on the docks used by the shrimpers, etc. the biggest thing that breaks is refrigeration. Ice makers, freezers, and refrigerators. I don't know how the laws are in other countries, but I know that you can't work on that stuff here in the States without a license.
Just my two cents worth.
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Old 10-09-2015, 13:56   #104
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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You mentioned that your husband was going to go to marine/engine school. A suggestion that I have for y'all is learn to work on refrigeration. From the many you tube videos that I have seen, and the experience I have on the docks used by the shrimpers, etc. the biggest thing that breaks is refrigeration. Ice makers, freezers, and refrigerators. I don't know how the laws are in other countries, but I know that you can't work on that stuff here in the States without a license.
Just my two cents worth.
#2 to this would be stainless and aluminum welding.
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Old 10-09-2015, 14:09   #105
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

A refrigeration license is one of the cheapest and simplest parts of what you need to work on that stuff. You'll also need a gas recovery tank, and new gas supply tank, for EACH type of gas you work with. Which is one reason many folks stopped handling R12.
And, a set of hoses and gauges for, again, EACH type of gas. And a nice dry nitrogen tank, if you want to do testing without using restricted expensive gasses.


Not a cheap, or very portable, investment for a casual part-timer in that field.


Then you'll still need a license in most countries, especially those who have signed UN protocols, and of course, another business license in those countries, assuming the customs man doesn't get upset at the sight of the six or eight mysterious "tanks" you want to import, undoubtedly for personal use.(G)


Neurosurgery may require less paperwork.
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