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Old 15-07-2015, 07:42   #76
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
One morning in Bermuda ... Driver comes back and sees the suitcase, and shouts "WHAT YOU TRYING TO DO, MON? DAT MY JOB, NOT YOUR JOB. YOU TAKE THAT BACK OFF DE BUS NOW OR WE DON'T GO NOWHERE." ...
I'm not quite sure you've rendered Bermudan speech accurately. I've spent a considerable amount of time in Bermuda and have known folks there for decades. Never have I heard a native Bermudan use such intonation.

BTW, I'm not talking only of the Royal Hamilton Amateur Dinghy club membership.
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Old 15-07-2015, 08:28   #77
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Sorry to be my usual "debbie downer" but here's my experience in matter.

You aren't going to make significant money writing for the web. I setup a tech humor site in 2003, published daily for three years, had 10,000 visitors per month, and made about $400 per year off of the effort in passive advertising. And that was a decade ago, when there was still money in the web. My experience was very much typical. And in case you're wondering, yes, I was professional tech writer at that time.
Amazon.com: matthew strebe: Books

The problem with everything advertising based is there's always someone younger, faster, and hungrier than you willing to do whatever it takes to get eyeballs. You read those shitty "click holes" all the time from facebook links, proffering "jaw dropping" automatically generated content just trying to get people to keep clicking links, with their photoshopped crap and "you won't believe" titles.

If you've truly got some unique value to share, you can setup a nice community forum (like this one) and sell some advertising on it. That kind of site, well managed, well moderated, and started 15 years ago, makes about $2000/mo. for friends of mine that do it.

I've also worked from a home office for the past 20 years.

The technical part of my job I can do from anywhere. What I cannot do from anywhere (and neither can anyone else) is business development--i.e., sales and marketing. Most people aren't going to hire someone they haven't met. Yes, it's happened, to me, but it's very rare. About 2% of our clients hire us sight unseen. That's not enough to build a business on for me or for anyone else. I have to be in the community elbow-to-elbow with people to generate business.

Unless you're extremely lucky to know someone who can act as an agent for you (or unless you have an agent) you will have the same problem.

My brother-in-law lives and works aboard his Ranger 33, taking tech support calls on his boat and remotely fixing other people's computers. He works in port via LTE cellular internet. How does he get work? He works for me. I'm his employer, and I go dig up the business that he works.

He also cannot work at sea. Satellite Internet has extremely high "latency" (round-trip times) that makes it useless for anything except downloads and email. You can't do real-time connections over it of any useful sort. It would be fine for blogging, but that doesn't make any money.

I do intend to write fiction while I cruise in my retirement. Maybe that will come to something, maybe not. But it's still not that much money. the top 1% of --published-- authors only make $100K per year. Most authors make less than $20K per annum off of book sales alone. That makes writing nice for supplemental income if you're very successful, and otherwise merely a hobby.

What consistently sells is hard labor. If there are other cruisers around, and you offer to wash and wax their boats, and you do a good job, you can make a few hundred bucks a month. Diving boats at anchorages (rather than marinas) to clean hulls will also net you $50 a go.

Everything else is buying lottery tickets with your time, that generally isn't going to pay out. Sometimes you get an S/V Delos, but I'm personally past the age where I look good in just bikini bottoms.
+1

SV Delos are probably the most popular cruisers at the moment based on youtube / patreon visits.

They aren't making anything other than beer money from patreon and web advertising. They spoke about this on a podcast whose name escapes me.

Unless you have an established business that doesn't require your attendance or can put off high paying work to fit your schedule you wont be saving money while cruising. Zeroxte.com has been cruising for 7ish years.

The odd end of the bell curve exceptions not withstanding.

Your best option is to offer your services for dirty, dreary or dangerous work. Diving, climbing masts, fixing heads, cleaning, etc. Blogging and uploading videos to Youtube isn't a job.

Don't plan on cruising to make money. It aint going to happen.

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Old 15-07-2015, 08:45   #78
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

If you want to cruise and are looking to fund it on the way, it's doable, be willing to stop and work somewhere and do any kind of work along the way. If you want to make Bank, stay tied to the hill.
I don't have lots of money...less than 20k a year...and never did. Yet I live the freedom of cruising where ever I feel like going. I show up with the willingness to give and all else is taken care of. I've seen lots of low income cruisers always out looking for what they could get and they don't last long. there are plenty more out cruising and living it.

you may not see many of them on this site, as this is a small slice of the cruising world. But if you get out there with an open mind you'll find them and your dream will flower. Have Faith.

PEACE LUV & HAPPINESS
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Old 15-07-2015, 10:08   #79
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

DEAR BELOVED IN THE LORD.

I HAVE MONEY MAKING OPORTUNITY FOR YOU.

I AM AFRICAN PRINCE THAT HAVE INHERITED WORLD LARGEST DIAMOND MINE, AND I NEED HELP FROM YOU TO GET DIAMONDS OUT OF MY COUNTRY.

IF YOU WILL SEND $5000 USD TO ME, I WILL GET TO YOU $50,000 IN DIAMONDS.

SEND MONEY BY WESTERN UNION TO: IAMAREALPRINCE@WOULDILIETOYOU.RU
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Old 15-07-2015, 10:19   #80
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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DEAR BELOVED IN THE LORD.

I HAVE MONEY MAKING OPORTUNITY FOR YOU.

I AM AFRICAN PRINCE THAT HAVE INHERITED WORLD LARGEST DIAMOND MINE, AND I NEED HELP FROM YOU TO GET DIAMONDS OUT OF MY COUNTRY.

IF YOU WILL SEND $5000 USD TO ME, I WILL GET TO YOU $50,000 IN DIAMONDS.

SEND MONEY BY WESTERN UNION TO: IAMAREALPRINCE@WOULDILIETOYOU.RU
I didn't know THIEVES were welcome here. Unless your looking for help to amend your ways. Other wise your welcome to your pain and misery.
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Old 15-07-2015, 10:25   #81
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by Travelnik View Post
DEAR BELOVED IN THE LORD.

I HAVE MONEY MAKING OPORTUNITY FOR YOU.

I AM AFRICAN PRINCE THAT HAVE INHERITED WORLD LARGEST DIAMOND MINE, AND I NEED HELP FROM YOU TO GET DIAMONDS OUT OF MY COUNTRY.

IF YOU WILL SEND $5000 USD TO ME, I WILL GET TO YOU $50,000 IN DIAMONDS.

SEND MONEY BY WESTERN UNION TO: IAMAREALPRINCE@WOULDILIETOYOU.RU
And I thought that was mine.
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Old 15-07-2015, 13:44   #82
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

Conversely, there is the Chinese point of view on unique abilities:
"If you are one in a million, there are still a thousand folks just like you waiting to take your place."


Writing a blog could be a waste of time for a really good author. They can make good money self-publishing on Amazon and other outlets. Many think they will, many fewer actually do.
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Old 16-07-2015, 12:52   #83
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
SV Delos are probably the most popular cruisers at the moment based on youtube / patreon visits.

They aren't making anything other than beer money from patreon and web advertising. They spoke about this on a podcast whose name escapes me.

Unless you have an established business that doesn't require your attendance or can put off high paying work to fit your schedule you wont be saving money while cruising. Zeroxte.com has been cruising for 7ish years.

The odd end of the bell curve exceptions not withstanding.

Your best option is to offer your services for dirty, dreary or dangerous work. Diving, climbing masts, fixing heads, cleaning, etc. Blogging and uploading videos to Youtube isn't a job.

Don't plan on cruising to make money. It aint going to happen.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Delos is certainly at the top when it comes to high quality videos, eye candy, and being on the leading edge of cruisers vlogging.

They made very little money on Youtube. You need millions of views to see the big money there, it seems. However, patreon is doing really well for them.

Delos currently makes nearly $4200 per video. This should keep them going for about 2 months. They make videos more often than once a month.
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Old 16-07-2015, 13:07   #84
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Sorry to be my usual "debbie downer" but here's my experience in matter.

You aren't going to make significant money writing for the web. I setup a tech humor site in 2003, published daily for three years, had 10,000 visitors per month, and made about $400 per year off of the effort in passive advertising. And that was a decade ago, when there was still money in the web. My experience was very much typical. And in case you're wondering, yes, I was professional tech writer at that time.
Amazon.com: matthew strebe: Books

The problem with everything advertising based is there's always someone younger, faster, and hungrier than you willing to do whatever it takes to get eyeballs. You read those shitty "click holes" all the time from facebook links, proffering "jaw dropping" automatically generated content just trying to get people to keep clicking links, with their photoshopped crap and "you won't believe" titles.

If you've truly got some unique value to share, you can setup a nice community forum (like this one) and sell some advertising on it. That kind of site, well managed, well moderated, and started 15 years ago, makes about $2000/mo. for friends of mine that do it.

I've also worked from a home office for the past 20 years.

The technical part of my job I can do from anywhere. What I cannot do from anywhere (and neither can anyone else) is business development--i.e., sales and marketing. Most people aren't going to hire someone they haven't met. Yes, it's happened, to me, but it's very rare. About 2% of our clients hire us sight unseen. That's not enough to build a business on for me or for anyone else. I have to be in the community elbow-to-elbow with people to generate business.

Unless you're extremely lucky to know someone who can act as an agent for you (or unless you have an agent) you will have the same problem.

My brother-in-law lives and works aboard his Ranger 33, taking tech support calls on his boat and remotely fixing other people's computers. He works in port via LTE cellular internet. How does he get work? He works for me. I'm his employer, and I go dig up the business that he works.

He also cannot work at sea. Satellite Internet has extremely high "latency" (round-trip times) that makes it useless for anything except downloads and email. You can't do real-time connections over it of any useful sort. It would be fine for blogging, but that doesn't make any money.

I do intend to write fiction while I cruise in my retirement. Maybe that will come to something, maybe not. But it's still not that much money. the top 1% of --published-- authors only make $100K per year. Most authors make less than $20K per annum off of book sales alone. That makes writing nice for supplemental income if you're very successful, and otherwise merely a hobby.

What consistently sells is hard labor. If there are other cruisers around, and you offer to wash and wax their boats, and you do a good job, you can make a few hundred bucks a month. Diving boats at anchorages (rather than marinas) to clean hulls will also net you $50 a go.

Everything else is buying lottery tickets with your time, that generally isn't going to pay out. Sometimes you get an S/V Delos, but I'm personally past the age where I look good in just bikini bottoms.
I have to disagree with a couple of your points.

First, though, I totally agree that setting up a blog and putting some ads on it isn't going to make any money. People make a lot of money from ads, but they need millions of eyeballs a month to do it. Think magazine and news sites, not blogs.

However, you can make really good money on the internet selling products (including ebooks or courses) or freelancing. There are many, many examples of people making 6 figure incomes doing this (and no, not just those selling "make money online" stuff, though they also do really well).

In a sense, these people are making money by writing online because this is how they draw an audience and also how they build relationships and perceived authority. The difference is that they then use that authority to sell to the audience instead of just flashing ads at them.

I also know that you can do business development without meeting people face to face. It isn't as easy, but by building that trust through your website, many people do it.

Note that you don't need to be doing a sailing related blog. If you're a programmer or an electrician or a tax accountant, or whatever, you can find ways to build a product and sell it, all online and from anywhere.

I'm a podcast guy, so I'll recommend these ones to listen to for ideas:
Sail Loot
Smart Passive Income
The Fizzle Show
Entrepreneur on Fire

I've been working at figuring out how to build an income stream online for the last 6 months or so and have some projects on the go. I haven't made any money yet, but I'm confident that if I don't, it's my own fault. You can follow my experimenting here.
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Old 19-07-2015, 14:07   #85
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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I have to disagree with a couple of your points.



...



I've been working at figuring out how to build an income stream online for the last 6 months or so and have some projects on the go. I haven't made any money yet, but I'm confident that if I don't, it's my own fault. You can follow my experimenting here.

Thanks for sharing the benefit of your enthusiasm. Perhaps you missed the part where I am sharing the benefit of my actual life experience and that of my friends in Internet related industries?

When you don't make money, it will be your fault because you've been warned "passive online income streams" don't work. The only passive income stream that works is ownership of a valuable real world commodity such as a property, a business, or >uniquely valuable< intellectual property.

There is nothing unique about what you are doing, and millions of others failing at it. The people making money are the ones selling the method upstream from you.

I have traditionally published 17 books, and self-published one. I've run an IT business for 19 years and have worked from home and worked remotely the entire time. My business has 25 regular employees. It's very much a regular job except that we all work from home offices.

You are being sold hope by multilevel marketers. They will make money--from you. You are the end-consumer of their false-hope "how I did it" product.

You will work you butt off until you're completely discouraged and then go on to the next scheme that promises riches for doing the system without having to create any true value.

You'll be selling your relationships (and getting banned from forums for guerrilla marketing in posts) to make a pittance and finding that your family and friends avoid you and strangers don't listen to you because you're always trying to sell to them.

Very few people make money in self-publishing. My self-published book has made a total of $15K over eight years, which is about what I expected, and about what the advance for a traditionally published book is. And that's an exception, not the rule.

Writing a book doesn't make you an authority, being an authority allows you to write a useful book.

Yes, there's a certain cachet that comes from being a >traditionally published< author, but not from self-publishing unless the book is remarkably popular. If you don't believe me, describe yourself as a "self-published author" and see who thinks that's an accomplishment.

I know you won't bs able to accept the truth of what I'm saying now, so I challenge you to go to your phone, put in a calendar item for five years from today, and when that reminder goes off, come back to this thread and comment. The thread will still be here.


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Old 19-07-2015, 14:27   #86
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Thanks for sharing the benefit of your enthusiasm. Perhaps you missed the part where I am sharing the benefit of my actual life experience and that of my friends in Internet related industries?

When you don't make money, it will be your fault because you've been warned "passive online income streams" don't work. The only passive income stream that works is ownership of a valuable real world commodity such as a property, a business, or >uniquely valuable< intellectual property.

There is nothing unique about what you are doing, and millions of others failing at it. The people making money are the ones selling the method upstream from you.

I have traditionally published 17 books, and self-published one. I've run an IT business for 19 years and have worked from home and worked remotely the entire time. My business has 25 regular employees. It's very much a regular job except that we all work from home offices.

You are being sold hope by multilevel marketers. They will make money--from you. You are the end-consumer of their false-hope "how I did it" product.

You will work you butt off until you're completely discouraged and then go on to the next scheme that promises riches for doing the system without having to create any true value.

You'll be selling your relationships (and getting banned from forums for guerrilla marketing in posts) to make a pittance and finding that your family and friends avoid you and strangers don't listen to you because you're always trying to sell to them.

Very few people make money in self-publishing. My self-published book has made a total of $15K over eight years, which is about what I expected, and about what the advance for a traditionally published book is. And that's an exception, not the rule.

Writing a book doesn't make you an authority, being an authority allows you to write a useful book.

Yes, there's a certain cachet that comes from being a >traditionally published< author, but not from self-publishing unless the book is remarkably popular. If you don't believe me, describe yourself as a "self-published author" and see who thinks that's an accomplishment.

I know you won't bs able to accept the truth of what I'm saying now, so I challenge you to go to your phone, put in a calendar item for five years from today, and when that reminder goes off, come back to this thread and comment. The thread will still be here.


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A little harsh but true! There ain't no free lunches.
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Old 20-07-2015, 18:10   #87
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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A little harsh but true! There ain't no free lunches.
Why would making money using the internet be a free lunch? The people that I know who are doing it are working their asses off.

They are reasonably location independent, and many of them have "passive" income models where they aren't trading dollars for hours, but passive income isn't easy income. You still need to build a great product and market it well, just like any other business.
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Old 20-07-2015, 18:27   #88
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Thanks for sharing the benefit of your enthusiasm. Perhaps you missed the part where I am sharing the benefit of my actual life experience and that of my friends in Internet related industries?

When you don't make money, it will be your fault because you've been warned "passive online income streams" don't work. The only passive income stream that works is ownership of a valuable real world commodity such as a property, a business, or >uniquely valuable< intellectual property.

There is nothing unique about what you are doing, and millions of others failing at it. The people making money are the ones selling the method upstream from you.

I have traditionally published 17 books, and self-published one. I've run an IT business for 19 years and have worked from home and worked remotely the entire time. My business has 25 regular employees. It's very much a regular job except that we all work from home offices.

You are being sold hope by multilevel marketers. They will make money--from you. You are the end-consumer of their false-hope "how I did it" product.

You will work you butt off until you're completely discouraged and then go on to the next scheme that promises riches for doing the system without having to create any true value.

You'll be selling your relationships (and getting banned from forums for guerrilla marketing in posts) to make a pittance and finding that your family and friends avoid you and strangers don't listen to you because you're always trying to sell to them.

Very few people make money in self-publishing. My self-published book has made a total of $15K over eight years, which is about what I expected, and about what the advance for a traditionally published book is. And that's an exception, not the rule.

Writing a book doesn't make you an authority, being an authority allows you to write a useful book.

Yes, there's a certain cachet that comes from being a >traditionally published< author, but not from self-publishing unless the book is remarkably popular. If you don't believe me, describe yourself as a "self-published author" and see who thinks that's an accomplishment.

I know you won't bs able to accept the truth of what I'm saying now, so I challenge you to go to your phone, put in a calendar item for five years from today, and when that reminder goes off, come back to this thread and comment. The thread will still be here.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
We seem to be talking past each other here. Based on your first post, you basically said that you can't make money on the internet because there isn't enough money in advertising (I totally agree) and business development on the internet is impossible (I definitely don't agree). You've now also added that self publishing books on the internet doesn't work either (I also don't agree).

You've assumed that I'm naive and am swallowing a load of garbage from the only people who do make money on the internet: those selling the idea of how to make money on the internet. That's pretty insulting, frankly, but I'll try to look past it.

I'm supposed to be working, so please forgive me for not citing with lots of links, but here are some examples of real people with real products making a good living with either passive or freelance type business models:
  • Pat Flynn famously made 6 figures selling LEED exam study guides before he became a "how to make money on the internet" guy
  • The evernote essentials e-book guy was able to quit his job and makes very good money
  • The live scrivener fast guy did the sae
  • Active Captain makes good money
  • I can think of two different digital photography sites that sell courses and books
  • There's a bass guy who sells courses on how to learn bass
  • paleo plan guy sells menus and recipes
  • nerd fitness guy sells work out plans, ebooks, etc
  • zen habits sells books and products
  • my accountant is one of many working from home for a company that does all of their business development online

These are just off the top of my head. They all make a full time income. Plenty of people are also working as freelance designers, coders, etc. and have their whole business through the web.

Will I give up in frustration? Maybe. But to suggest that it's impossible to make money using the internet seems a bit silly given all the regular people who are doing just that.

I'm sure there are thousands more examples of people who've tried and failed. However, you can say the same thing about restaurant owners. Just because 90% of new restaurant owners fail doesn't mean that you can't make money selling food. It just means it isn't that easy to do it!

If I fail in 4 years, it won't be because it's impossible to make money on the internet. It'll be because I didn't do the right things or put in enough work.
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Old 14-08-2015, 23:26   #89
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

What about chartering your boat for hire wherever you are?
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Old 14-08-2015, 23:34   #90
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Re: Newbies wanting info on how to make an income

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What about chartering your boat for hire wherever you are?

If you will be aboard the boat, you must be a licensed captain and legal to work in the country. That's why most charters are bareboat. If not, you'll have to move all your belongings off the boat. Also, boats that charter are generally rather new, but must be very clean at a minimum.


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