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Old 28-02-2014, 17:32   #61
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

The size of the boat doesn't matter. As long as the OP realises what he has and eases into it properly. Get help from instructors do your sail training.

In my long experience, dinghy sailors don't In general make good keelboat sailors. Sailing a big keelboat is about management as much as sailing. Good sailors are good sailors irrespective of where they came from.

Good luck. Get good crew, take it easy, do lessons, build confidence slowly

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Old 03-03-2014, 06:52   #62
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

The only real comparable issue between sailing dinghy and keel boats I feel is the sailor can get to feel the reaction from wind,wave,etc. but what does this really tell them? To anticipate a breeze on a 40' boat? Not really. I agree to a point that one should travel on a boat some to see if they like it, but race, not at all. That has nothing to do with cruising,IMO. Many of us have raced our entire life,chasing the dream,the buck, the promotion,what-ever. Many are damn sick of the rat-race. If a person wants to buy a 50' dream, by heaven, God bless 'em. Go do it! Yes, baby steps, but still steps. Better than sitting on the dock spewing orders or going around some markers thinking that is where the cruising answers lie. The answers are usually just beyond the horizon, never really to be found. Just my opinion
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:51   #63
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Im surprised a pilot hasnt chimed in by now. I am a Commercial pilot and see both sides. A small sail boat is fun to sail, just like a cessna is fun to fly. It responds quickly to control input. Most people start with a small plane. A high performance plane like a mooney will get ya killed if you make mistakes. With a small plane you can feel the movement and fly by the "seat of your pants". Just like a small sail boat, you feel the boat getting over powered and feel the need to turn upwind or let boom out to spill wind and come more up right (for the ones who dont want to get wet). When flying a large plane, you need to think about how slow the control input will be and make adjustments early. Pilots plan, plan and plan. We say fly in front of the plane and not on the tail. We plan are approaches many moves in advance. Be proactive, not reactive. Just like docking a large sail boat. Have a plan of attack and work through the plan with calmness and organization. I've seen so many "experienced sailors" come in hot and heavy barking orders, then smack the dock and blame the crew. OTOH, pilots keep calm always and dont get distracted by surrounding problems. They are trained to keep focused. Pilots know tons about weather and navigation, compass heading, deviation, variation and also mechanical aspects of engines. I think the OP can be safe in any size boat. All it takes is planning and practice. I'm sure a skilled pilot would welcome some lessons and a "check ride" to see if he is really ready. I believe this OP already has the mindset to be safe and knows how to stay out of trouble. Just my 2 cents. I am a little bias being a pilot.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:44   #64
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Oh well despite the statement that "the op has the mind set to be safe and knows how to stay out of trouble" I say that in order to stay out of trouble you have to know where it lives.
Following this same philosophy I not knowing how to fly could decide to buy a Cessna Citation as my first plane. I have a very stressful job and have to stay calm so as long as I "slow the control input and make adjustments early" I should be fine.
Also it is very interesting to see most of the people urging this individual to follow his dream actually sail smaller boats.
Therefore as one who owns a 50 foot boat I will continue to state that controlling a 50 foot boat is a lot different than a 35 foot one ESPECIALLY in a close environment and when things go wrong.
Compared to some on this forum I am but a novice but with 30 years of competitive racing plus experiencing the cruising life from the Canadian Border to Venezuela I will continue to feel he is making a mistake.
But then again yacht brokers, lawyers and morticians also need to make a living :-)
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Old 04-03-2014, 14:48   #65
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Say what you like but almost all the top racing sailors started sailing on dinghy's.
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Old 04-03-2014, 15:37   #66
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

What robert sailor says is absolutely correct.
Dingy sailors make the best sailors whether sailing a dingy, keelboat or multihull.
Also not all racing skippers "bark orders".
In my experience the most successful race boats are the quite ones.
But keeping with the op discussion, you will never develop the level of intensity needed in learning how to maximize the performance of a 50 footer as your first boat. And that statement does not even address the safety issue.
Yes you can learn to "sail" in a keel boat and many have and that is fine, but a 50 foot first boat is definitely pushing the limit and ultimately you will end up cheating yourself.
Statistically the odds for success will be overwhelmingly against the person who starts with a 50 foot boat for oh so many reasons!
It really just boils down to frigging common sense.
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Old 04-03-2014, 15:38   #67
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Say what you like but almost all the top racing sailors started sailing on dinghy's.
Your exactly right. Most people did start out sailing dinghy's. I started on a Hobie Cat. The best was sailing on my friends 36 ft boat. Then windsurfing was even the funnest of all. The smaller, seems like the funner. However, if you want a smooth ride and dont want to spend all the time living sideways on a heel, why not go comfortable. My wife didnt want to sail at all. Plus all the working I used to do was 12 hrs/ day, 6 days/wk. I was doomed to be a dock Queen no matter what I bought. So thats how I ended up with a 43 Hatteras MY. Now my schedule has gotten slower, so I will be looking to trade to a 40-45 ft blow boat. We spent the winter in the Keys and went sailing with friends. My wife now wants a sail boat. Imagine that !!! In todays buyers market, its really hard to sale a boat. Thats why if you buy a boat then plan on keeping it for a long time. Boat trading is a sure way to lose lots of money. Hopefully I can sell my Hatteras without any troubles. Most of my sailing friends motor anyway and raise the sails 20% of the time being the wind is always wrong. My advise, is buy the boat your feel like living onboard, then as raise the sails periodically. Of course, dont buy it then the next week head out across the ocean.
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Old 04-03-2014, 18:04   #68
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caradow View Post
...Statistically the odds for success will be overwhelmingly against the person who starts with a 50 foot boat for oh so many reasons!...
OK, I'll bite.

Give us some of those overwhelming statistics. I'm really, really curious how you are going to do this with actual facts rather than anecdotal evidence. I don't believe that there are any stats out there and don't even know how or what one would measure. I also feel that if there were numbers out there, they wouldn't bear out that supposition.
I'll start with a statistic I know - first boat 43, then 49, now 57 feet all, with few exceptions, singlehanded exclusively for many miles. I'm still floating, so would classify that as a success and never had the feeling that the odds were stacked against me. I should add that I am a pilot (not ATPL) as well and knowledge learned about systems management plus weather and a realization that mother nature is not always your best friend is invaluable.
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Old 04-03-2014, 19:18   #69
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Zanshin you are correct that I have no published data and my statement is based entirely on what I have personally witnessed in my sailing career......so you got me there!
However maybe you would share what and how you went about starting about in a 43 foot boat WITHOUT ANY SAILING EXPERIENCE. Just how much help did you have and how long did you sail prior to "moving on up"? Did you have any accidents? Did you cause any injuries? Did your insurance ever cancel you? etc. SURELY YOU MUST HAVE HAD EXPERIENCES THAT DIDN'T GO SO WELL.
Or maybe you are just one great sailor....... or a very lucky one.
Yes and there are those who I have seen manage to get themselves from place to place and are "still floating". On the other hand there are some very scary people going about in boats. And please understand I am in no way referring to you.
Lastly I do not mean to insult anyone who started their sailing in larger boats. However I will personally continue to cherish the years I have spent in small boats as very important building blocks for the sailing I do today.
I am sure some or even many on this forum may disagree with my views.
But just maybe in this debate we will all learn something.
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Old 04-03-2014, 19:39   #70
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

You aren't alone caradow.

I own a 50 footer and still get into occasional trouble. e.g. Docking on a windy day remains too hard so I anchor out and come in at dawn. I first stepped on a boat in 1967 - it was a Sabot.

Dinghy sailing is wonderful training for a sailor of any age and really sharpens you up. e.g. when you are on someone else's boat and they have no small boat background it is vey easy to drive them nuts. Any decent dinghy sailor can call breeze about 3 seconds ahead of the instruments but a big boat only sailor relies on them religiously. Similarly you can read the next puff as a knock or a lift and react in advance.

As for yelling, that is the preserve of the guys at the rear of the fleet. World champions are usually very quiet.
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Old 04-03-2014, 21:07   #71
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Hi Folks,

I am new to the forum and I want to buy a jet airplane but no one will give me insurance. I can afford a really big jet airplane but basically I have ZERO experience flying airplanes but I am a SAILOR so some of that translates....
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Old 04-03-2014, 21:14   #72
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Makes sense. Chicks dig pilots

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Old 05-03-2014, 12:00   #73
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Say what you like but almost all the top racing sailors started sailing on dinghy's.
maybe i missed something in the orginal posting but i think he was talking about cruising --- racing and cruising are 2 different animals -- i have met a few racers who are great sailors and would never make a cruiser --
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:09   #74
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Hi Folks,

I am new to the forum and I want to buy a jet airplane but no one will give me insurance. I can afford a really big jet airplane but basically I have ZERO experience flying airplanes but I am a SAILOR so some of that translates....
i see the silly season is upon us --

as information delancey my first and only boat is a 40' i bought new in 2003 - i had just a bit of a tussel getting insurance but not a lot and i first stepped on a sailboat in in dec 2001 for a asa lesson --
and now have more than a few thousand miles under our keel -- never took a dingy lesson - learned on big boat and stayed on big boat -- am i missing something???? i think not!
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Old 05-03-2014, 14:09   #75
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Re: My first boat ... a Jeanneau 50?

Herein lies the problem.
You don't KNOW what you are missing.
There is a lot more to sailing than simply getting from one place to the next.
The only way you will ever find out to to take a walk on the wild side and sail small boats.
Just maybe you will learn something you did not read in a book or got while you were being spoon fed.
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