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Old 08-05-2014, 18:02   #886
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

And the bucket is getting full from the contest and the wind will change and blow back.

Coops.
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:09   #887
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
And the bucket is getting full from the contest and the wind will change and blow back.

Coops.
See? We're getting Coops riled (and that takes a lot).

Can we get back to how to make a living while cruising without displacing the locals where we are at? Please? I'm retiring soon and need all the help I can get.
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:09   #888
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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Originally Posted by Cormorant View Post
I've been trading the MRCI spreads for just over a year now. Started with $20,000 and recently was up $50,000. . . .

But I lacked the self-discipline that Delfin has, entering each spread on the date indicated and exiting likewise, and one of each. I tend to get carried away, picking favorites, doubling or tripling up on some while letting others go untouched. Big mistake.

Here's the point where both Delfin and Certeza can put their arms around each other's shoulders, and say in unison, "Told you so, you idiot!"

I've lost a substantial amount over the last couple of months, all the while watching the MRCI list, if traded as indicated, growing by over $20,000. So my advice is . . . "Don't stray from the path!"

It also makes me think that letting a broker do it for you wouldn't be such a bad idea. They will just do it and not let their fevered heads and hot little hands get the better of them. The small amount of extra you would pay in commissions (maybe $15 per spread instead of $5) would be peanuts compared to the unnecessary losses you can cause for yourself. And you can go off cruising for a year or more and come back to see what you've got.

I'm still in and regaining lost ground, but playing it much more conservatively now.

And I'm still grateful every day to Delfin for telling me about MRCI and spread trading.
I wouldn't beat up on yourself, since if you learn this lesson from one setback you are about 3 x brighter than I am. I have tried out thinking the historical pattern analysis that Moore does, looking for ways to improve the odds and all I accomplished was decreasing returns. I've looked for improved setups, entering trades that turned out to be losers while not entering trades that were winners. I've increased the number of spread sets traded for those that looked good, effectively increasing my risk by overweighting the total trades entered by those I "thought" looked better. Never worked. So, it turns out that the simplest method is also the best and most compatible with a cruising lifestyle - just spend a few minutes each week setting up the trades, and go sailing.

The part of risk management that is not immediately obvious from the Moore approach is that by combining lots and lots of spreads, all traded 1 x 1, 2 x 2 or 10 x 10 if that fits your means, and all spread out across multiple categories results in very acceptable rates of returns with remarkable returns. Whatever I tried to do to improve on this model just effed it up.

Regarding brokers, you're right, that might not be a bad idea in some cases. The commissions on a spread set self traded are $11.00 or so round trip. Add $20 and a broker will place them for you. I only know of one guy who does this for clients, but I bet if you contact Moore, they could direct you to others. That said, I like managing this myself since it is easy and I think it's important to understand the things that can put your grandkids through Ivy League schools.
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:21   #889
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post

All I'm saying is that for the vast majority of people that try it, they will be crying in their beer after blowing a chunk of their Cruising Kitty. I don't see the controversy in that....
Not controversial, just a declarative statement made from complete ignorance of the topic being discussed. I know of no one who has followed the model I use and not done extremely well, in fact, based on over a decade of experience it isn't possible not to have done well in good and bad markets. I know of a few opinionated blow hards who think otherwise, but when pressed for their reasons, they usually just bloviate a bit more from ignorance.

So what are your reasons for stating that "the vast majority of people that try it...will blow a chunk of their Cruising Kitty"? Any data to back that up, and if not, why bother to offer an uninformed declarative statement on a subject you know nothing about?
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:22   #890
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
And the bucket is getting full from the contest and the wind will change and blow back.

Coops.
Translation?
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:35   #891
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Translation?
I think he's referring to pee...

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:37   #892
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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I think he's referring to pee...

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Ah so, thank you.
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:47   #893
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
So what are your reasons for stating that "the vast majority of people that try it...will blow a chunk of their Cruising Kitty"? Any data to back that up, and if not, why bother to offer an uninformed declarative statement on a subject you know nothing about?
Easy....
A few posts back we have a post by someone quite happy with what you have helped them get into telling us of starting with $20K, going to $50K and also talks about having lots a big amount. He learned from it and is wiser. He talked about having been down big amounts following the "system" and making those mistakes. Learning from them and being a better trader....got it...believe it...love it.

So here is what will happen in reality to the Average Joe investor...happens every day...you have seen it...I have seen it...and it hurts people.

He will do it all on paper...set up the fake account...simulate trades and all will go great. So he puts in the cash and starts doing it for "real" with a chunk of his cruising kitty. Now everything changes once it is REAL money and not shadow money...emotion...ego...psychology...they all come into play. He worked his entire life for this cruising kitty and it is everything he holds dear.


What happens then when rather than having his initial trading weeks or months make money rather they take him down $10K? Does he stay in and go for the averages that will work out over the long term...hell no he doesn't. He panics, pulls it all out and is out the $10K. Or what happens if his initial weeks and months are up $50K? Just as the story above, he gets happy, emotional, and cocky and ups his bets. Boom…a bad week/month wipes him out.


He's a lawyer, Dr, Plumber turned cruiser not a disciplined investor. And that right there is why this type of thing is Dangerous in my point of view (not saying I wouldn’t try it myself…but it is dangerous) Not because it "Can't work" but because of how human nature "Does work". I’m not saying Delfin is crazy or hasn’t made a killing doing this…he has and I LOVE the fact that he has…it’s the American Way. Delfin and the others that have made this work are not the “average joe cruiser investors”. The average Joe sells his mutual funds at the bottom, buys them back at the top and is more influenced by his emotions and wrong view of money (not as a tool to be used). It’s this guy I worry about because they see these “make $100K a year with 2hrs a week” stories on the internet and I see trouble for them.



That’s all I’m saying…to me the “I work 2hrs a week” and make money in the market” is a red herring, again in my opinion , because after 15yrs of doing it…you have years and years of experience that the average joe cruiser doesn’t have nor I believe has the patience to develop. The financial patience and discipline is not something I believe the Vast Majority of People have. What’s my evidence for this…Look around, people can’t manage their debt or investments already. How having this view has turned me ignorant or into an internet bully I’ll never know. All I know is that if it works for some GREAT, I couldn’t be happier but I just don’t see the Average Cruiser being able to pull this off…does that make me a bad person? A realist maybe….

http://www.mrci.com/web/index.php
When I see the "just $49/mo" subscription service....I have to ask...why sell this for $49/mo when you could make millions yourself?
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Old 08-05-2014, 19:13   #894
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

Perhaps this disparity of world views could be resolved by starting a separate thread entitled "Earn Money While Cruising"
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Old 08-05-2014, 19:18   #895
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

I think Delfin summed by my concerns the best himself when he talked about the ups/down, cost to enter, and the emotional component.

Quote:
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I can say that if you have an account with less than around $40k you may be restricted in your ability to enter all the trades, and you also have to accept that on starting to trade you might have adverse results that would draw down your account before recovering. That could be very discouraging. The key to this is to be able to accept the downs with the ups and play the long game, as unemotionally as you can. That last requirement is why most people can't do this. Money makes us emotional.

If you look at the hypothetical spread trading results for 2011 on the Moore site, you can see what you're dealing with. In January, trading 1 spread as planned with execution at end of market on the day indicated, with no slippage you would have been up $10k and a week or so later down $10k before finishing the year out up $70k. You'd want around $40k to start, although you might be lucky and get by with $25k, but assume you started out with $40k, how would you feel if it was only $30k after being up to $50k. You get the point. Sometimes winning is just a matter of keeping an army in the field.

I say most people can't do this and I'm a crazy bastard....
Delfin says it himself and then gets irritated with me for quoting him...(hint it's called Ego which is bad in investing just as much as chat room posting)
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Old 08-05-2014, 19:57   #896
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

Outta here. Good luck to all, fair winds and prosperity.
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Old 08-05-2014, 20:05   #897
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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See? We're getting Coops riled (and that takes a lot).

Can we get back to how to make a living while cruising without displacing the locals where we are at? Please? I'm retiring soon and need all the help I can get.
I think a floating brothel in S.E Asia would probably be a winner....
Organized Cruises between floating bars with an arrangement with the mamasans to promote only good swimmers.

Market it... as "cruise and sperm"

Sorry Coops...couldn't resist... )
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Old 08-05-2014, 20:06   #898
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Perhaps this disparity of world views could be resolved by starting a separate thread entitled "Earn Money While Cruising"

Seconded!
Emphasis on EARN.

How about a split off into two threads:
1. Earning money while cruising.
2. Stock Market speculation for Cruisers.

Coops, is this doable?
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Old 08-05-2014, 20:13   #899
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

I can close this one down and you can start new ones if you wish. But if it just dissolves into bickering and personal insults again then we achieve nothing. As has been stated before somewhere, the idea is to make points not score them. That way it is a discussion not an argument.

I think marriage guidance counselling would be easier at times. So would plaiting fog.

Keep it with humour and/or respect and all runs smooth.That is my sermon for today, I hope.

Coops.
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Old 08-05-2014, 20:32   #900
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Re: Make Money While Cruising - List

I guess all the ways I have seen real every day cruisers MAKE money while cruising don't count just becasue I have the same opinion as Delfin and I quote him. I added the bold to highlight:

"The key to this is to be able to accept the downs with the ups and play the long game, as unemotionally as you can. That last requirement is why most people can't do this. Money makes us emotional."

Copy that..."Most people Can't Do This" I didn't say it...Delfin did!
I pointed out the emotional nature of people and money (just as Delfin does) and why this type of thing is dangerous. Because you don't agree with it doesn't mean I didn't contribute Amigo...it just means we have differing opinions. Why oh Why is it so hard for people to accept that not everyone has to agree that using your Cruising Kitty as investment money is a good idea in the Market. Some love it...GREAT. I think it is Crazy...great.

There is a LONG list of ways to make money while cruising without putting ANY of your cruising kitty money at risk and I personally, I like those approaches. We talked about them early in the thread and feel those are the most valuable to cruisers looking for a way to fund their dream. Heck they worked for me...and I'm a non-contributer guy....so how hard can they be?
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