Looking at buying Ferro Boat - Any pointers?

[Reefmagnet]

If I wanted a lot of boat for the least amount of money, I'd go for ferro. If (and that's the problem - if) the boat was well built my only concern would be hitting a reef. Having said that, there is a ferro artificial reef in the river near me - created courtesy of a cyclone a few years ago - that, although holed on rocks and sunk, has a hull in surprisingly good condition.

I am no ferro expert but my observation is that once a boat gets to be 30 years old or more you will likely have more problems with a steel or wooden hull and perhaps even, arguably, a cored fibreglass hull then you will with a well built ferro.

Insurance is a problem. Choice seems to be limited to either dodgy "we'll ensure anyone" overseas based types or self insurance.

[Jim Cate]

Zoo, the displacement is a worry on a couple of fronts:

One thing that increases the displacement of ferro boats is an excessively thick hull. This is usually the mark of an amateur plastering job. Back in the heyday of ferro, the Sampson folks advocated a panel thickness of 5/8", and with a large portion of that being steel... rebar, wire or steel mesh, not chicken wire. Big deviations from that standard only increase weight, not strength, and if the additional thickness was added as a supposed replacement for the more expensive steel... well, it isn't a good thing at all! So, I'm suspicious about the professional build story...

Second, for a given size hull, the greater the displacement the greater the power (whether from sails or engine) required to move the boat. This means bigger sails and bigger sail loads are required to generate the power, and obviously, a larger engine is required which means more fuel burn and so on. None of those things are a benefit to you, and I fear that she will not sail well at all, especially in light airs. Do compare Boracays 44 foot steelie at 15 tonnes (not a lightweight) and our 46 foot timber boat at a launch weight of 9.5 tonnes... these are both successful cruising boats.

None of the above is meant as an attack on ferro boats in general. Rather, it is a warning to you that this particular one has some design or execution issues that would surely drive me away from it.

YMMV

Jim

[zooplax]

Personally looking for the bigger boat as the aim is to use it as a houseboat as well as a traveller and a work horse, i'm wanting a lot of of a boat it seems.

I agree if i wanted to cruise the world or the med with my partner and no on else a 34ft would suffice.

But to be honest I am looking for something with a bit more deck space and interior space, something with more than a small seating position squished in around helm, i have sailed in 34ft's, 37ft and 42ft modern boats and they all just feel a little claustrophobic on deck with 4 others...

Ideally I would like to consider using the boat as a day charter or at least have the option to use it as that if the opportunity came up or even a dive boat. (obviously licensing and permits permitting.. but thats another story).

Does seem like this boat is a little on the heavy side compared to your Boracay.. hmmmm

Thanks for the suggestions

[Stonefloat]

Jim Cates touched on questions about weight I sail a 39 ' Samson cutter weighing in at 17 tons (46' with bowsprit) I would get in touch with Colin Brooks @ Ferroboat .com he could help with recommendations with that said we love our Ferro , low maintenance , stout , warm in winter, cool in Sumer .....good luck, Stonefloat

[foggysail]

Boracay is right on the mark; 30K is a lot of money. If you are really serious about the boat and funds are tight, respectively offer half that..... and even that might not be the right move. Do not fear, there is no line waiting for the chance to take ownership!

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by foggysail

Boracay is right on the mark; 30K is a lot of money. If you are really serious about the boat and funds are tight, respectively offer half that..... and even that might not be the right move. Do not fear, there is no line waiting for the chance to take ownership!

Tried that one sadly I was turned down. And I actually offered two thirds of what they had listed.. Which leads me to think maybe it is a good one.. Maybe not..

[Wand]

If it's over 25 years old and is showing no rust lines, inside or out, then it'd likely be good for a long time yet. Unless the rust has been cosmetically dealt with, of course.

And contrary to the views of some, a good ferro hull is as safe offshore as any good hull.

But I am alarmed at the 23 tonnes displacement. A well built 14 metre ferro from one of the well known ferro designers usually comes in at around 15 tonnes.

If the 23 tonnes number is correct, I'd be very concerned at the integrity and quality of the build; that alone would cancel my interest. It might not fall apart but it'd take a massive rig to drive it.

[JPA Cate]

Massive rig, very expensive or electric (more pounds sterling) huge winches; depending on powerplant, huge diesel consumption; and if you've any thought of chartering it, seriously, the insurance problem could put a kibosh on that. FWIW

Ann

[zooplax]

Thanks all for your inputs...

Even more confused now though sadly, like most forums I have read through there are some good points and bad ones for ferro cement yachts

Not even sure I should go look at it now. Insurance is a worrying thing.

Anyone know the percentage of Ferro Yachts at the bottom of the sea compared to Steel, GRP & Aluminum?

[Mattyb]

I always have to laugh at how ferro is portrayed. I have largely stayed out of the ferro threads because they just seem so uneducated and personal. I have owned my Samson cshell for over a year now and couldnt ask for abetter hull. I have run her aground and sat for2 nights on her side with no problems, smashed her into a jetty with no more than abit of paint missing, had a power boat t bone me the other day and took a fair chunk of paint off. And here I still,sit. Yes im sure there are bad ferro boats out there like anything else but if you do your due dilligence like any other boat and find a good one then you will find your biggest problem is the same as everyone else, normal maintenance of systems. My boat is 36ft and sails amazingly, if you get away from the forum and start asking serious long term cruisers about people they have met along the way on ferro boats I think you will have a solid opinion

[Mattyb]

Oh and depending on wbat level insurance you need its not hard.

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by Mattyb

I always have to laugh at how ferro is portrayed. I have largely stayed out of the ferro threads because they just seem so uneducated and personal. I have owned my Samson cshell for over a year now and couldnt ask for abetter hull. I have run her aground and sat for2 nights on her side with no problems, smashed her into a jetty with no more than abit of paint missing, had a power boat t bone me the other day and took a fair chunk of paint off. And here I still,sit. Yes im sure there are bad ferro boats out there like anything else but if you do your due dilligence like any other boat and find a good one then you will find your biggest problem is the same as everyone else, normal maintenance of systems. My boat is 36ft and sails amazingly, if you get away from the forum and start asking serious long term cruisers about people they have met along the way on ferro boats I think you will have a solid opinion

Thanks for that, everyone who owns one seems to be happy with them, and as you say due dilligence is the key.

Can I ask (sorry to drag you into the forum)
* What weight is your boat by the way?, does 14.5m and 23 tonnes sound a lot to you?
* What survey did you carry out when you purchased yours (or did you build it yourself?)
* Engine installed is a 85hp one would this be large enough for the weight?

So far ferro as a material sounds quite good to me as long as it is in good condition without any cracks and the maintenance needed sounds great compared to a Steel boat I looked at a while ago.

Any updates much appreciated.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

If Yogi Berra were online, he might say something such as...."Yeah--ferro cement boats are so popular and so well-loved that you can't find them." There must be a reason why after decades of them being constructed as a "low cost" alternative that there hardly seems to be any of them. There must be a reason why wood has gone away pretty much, why steel and aluminum have a following, albeit a small one, and of course fiberglass is everywhere and seems to last forever...but ferrocement?? I dunno..it's just never taken off. It may have its orthodoxy and its tiny, very tiny following of adherents and enthusiasts, but there must be a reason why it just is not that popular. I don't know...but it is something to consider.

The simple answer to that question is that many major insurance companies decided not to insure ferro hulls. The reason they cited was that conventional surveying practices were unable to identify hull integrity issues. Where this immediately became problematic was that many marinas refuse to rent slips to boats without insurance.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mattyb

I always have to laugh at how ferro is portrayed. I have largely stayed out of the ferro threads because they just seem so uneducated and personal. I have owned my Samson cshell for over a year now and couldnt ask for abetter hull. I have run her aground and sat for2 nights on her side with no problems, smashed her into a jetty with no more than abit of paint missing, had a power boat t bone me the other day and took a fair chunk of paint off. And here I still,sit. Yes im sure there are bad ferro boats out there like anything else but if you do your due dilligence like any other boat and find a good one then you will find your biggest problem is the same as everyone else, normal maintenance of systems. My boat is 36ft and sails amazingly, if you get away from the forum and start asking serious long term cruisers about people they have met along the way on ferro boats I think you will have a solid opinion

G'Day Mattyb,

Well, I think I might qualify as a "serious long term cruiser" and as you suggest I have met quite a few ferro cruisers over the years. Some have been decent boats, well finished, well maintained and successful. Others have failed on one or more of those descriptors. Two that we knew personally have been stranded on a beach. One was totally destroyed within an hour (Maxwells Demon in Coffs Harbour with a fair amount of surge running), the other suffered major damage (Oceanus, Sea of Cortez under calm conditions). Both of these boats had appeared to be sound examples of ferro construction prior to their strandings. The point is that it is very hard to determine the quality of construction after the fact... ask any surveyor!

And Matty, the sailing performance of your C-shell may amaze you, but I doubt if it would amaze many others...

Cheers,

Jim

[zooplax]

Out of curiosity: How many steel, wooden or GRP yachts are you aware of that have been stranded on beaches and suffered major damage? can it not happen to all boats.. not only ferro ones..