Looking at buying Ferro Boat - Any pointers?

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Let me point out another option here. The other parameter yo can change is boat size. It's amazing how many people think they need a 46 ft. vessel. My HR 35 cost (initially) less than you're talking about. I have seen late 60's-mid 70's F/G 40 footers go for less too and sail away condition. Of course that is on the Left coast of the US.

Agree have seen a few good ones over your way, here in Europe everything is a little more pricey. Sadly once you add viewing costs to US from Europe plus trips to make ship shape its sometimes easier to spend more and get something closer.. things build up. Especially on a bit of a budget. Smaller is tempting but hoping to use it with guests, possibly day charters if we an get round the red tape and just to have a bit of space for myself and partner and some storage room.. It a huffy room lol.. Or is that when you sit in the dingy on a long rope?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Let me point out another option here. The other parameter yo can change is boat size. It's amazing how many people think they need a 46 ft. vessel. My HR 35 cost (initially) less than you're talking about. I have seen late 60's-mid 70's F/G 40 footers go for less too and sail away condition. Of course that is on the Left coast of the US.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by zooplax

Agree have seen a few good ones over your way, here in Europe everything is a little more pricey. Sadly once you add viewing costs to US from Europe plus trips to make ship shape its sometimes easier to spend more and get something closer.. things build up. Especially on a bit of a budget. Smaller is tempting but hoping to use it with guests, possibly day charters if we an get round the red tape and just to have a bit of space for myself and partner and some storage room.. It a huffy room lol.. Or is that when you sit in the dingy on a long rope?

Coding a 25-year old boat to charter standards is a very expensive exercise which would be pretty hard to make economically feasible.

Concerning running charter businesses in general -- there is a large volume of very detailed and very valuable information in the archives of this forum. It is a great business for a few dedicated people with the right kinds of boats, the right approach, the necessary business acumen, and the required amount of dedication to it as a business. It usually does not work, in any profitable way at least, as a casual side business, to "cover the costs of cruising" by taking out paying passengers once in a while. You'll find lots of information in the archives.

[Dockhead]

Here is a nice, reasonably fresh-looking, 45 foot steel boat for sale for 39k in the UK:

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/lis...g_id=76733&url=


Looks like she was launched only in 2002, so there is a chance that the systems have some life in them.

There's a lot to be said for a long-keel steel ketch for a circumnavigation. Fitout and galley look kind of crude, but that might not be the worst compromise to make in selecting a sturdy, inexpensive boat. Looks like it has very nice electronics.

Here's an excellent plastic boat:

1985 Jeanneau Sunshine Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

Looks like it's sold, but something else like this might come up. Jeanneaus of that era are solid, good-sailing boats, with no hull liner, and they have shaft drive. They have inherent value which can justify some investment in renovation in some cases. 25k, tax paid!

[zooplax]

Thanks for all the input see below photos from a recent viewing

A lot of you mentioned to look out for hull defects etc, so I have attached some photos of the hull and a couple of the engine space, Any comments much appreciated.

As most of you have said. Big problem is INSURANCE!!.. such a shame too as its a lovely boat and I am so tempted, we are looking at getting a full survey on her but thought I would post some photos before we do as if anyone notices anything suspect it could save me the whole job of lifting her out and surveyor fees.

Click on link to see other hull photos: http://sdrv.ms/17oOxjO

These pictures include: (shown at bottom also)
2 Photos: Hull before paint job in 2012
1 Photo: Hull after paint job in 2012 (under waterline)
5 Photos: Hull in water currently (was repainted in 2012)
2 Photos: Engine space

Any pointers on what you can see? thanks in advance all.

[appick]

What is the rust streak down the hull? What's going on with the transom? It looks like a repair or a patch? We can't really tell anything though from a couple of pictures.

[Mattyb]

It really is hard to pass any educated judgement from photos. But there doesnt seem to be any glaringly obvious defects. was the hull quite fair? a really well done ferro should be hard to tell the difference what the hull is made from.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by zooplax

...A lot of you mentioned to look out for hull defects etc, so I have attached some photos of the hull and a couple of the engine space, Any comments much appreciated.

I doubt it'd be possible to make any sensible comments from those (or any) pics. And if you're thinking of getting a surveyor, good luck; very few are any good and even fewer know anything about ferro cement builds. Your best bet would be to contact your countyman Colin Brookes. He has built plenty of ferros and has a good website; google will find it. Don't be rushed into a decision; I doubt folk are lining up to make offers on her.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Hmmm...Re the second quote: Seems to me that Borocay has just mentioned that his slightly smaller steel boat is some EIGHT TONNES lighter than the subject ferro boat. This boat is indeed heavier that normal steel construction of its size.... If you should carefully re-read my posts...

Thanks for making my point Jim. I posted that ferro boats built to good designs are no heavier than the same design built in steel, and the Boracay example you mention proves it. I once owned a 43 foot ferro and it tipped the scales at 14 tonnes, just like Boracay at 14 tonnes. And if you should re-read my posts, either carefully or otherwise, you'll see that I say that the 23 tonnes this fellow is reported to weigh would, for me, be a deal buster. Are you sure you don't like a good front bar?

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by Mattyb

It really is hard to pass any educated judgement from photos. But there doesnt seem to be any glaringly obvious defects. was the hull quite fair? a really well done ferro should be hard to tell the difference what the hull is made from.

Thanks, I understand what you mean, hull did look in fair condition whole boat did in fact, Hence why i'm considering buying a floating footpath, Nothing I have seen has made me run yet, only downside I am finding is the insurance to date, but I seem to have found 2 quotes so far but they need a little further checking out and research.

[Steve Bean]

Are there any other ferroboats near you that are insured? If so, by whom?

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Here is a nice, reasonably fresh-looking, 45 foot steel boat for sale for 39k in the UK:

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/lis...g_id=76733&url=


Looks like she was launched only in 2002, so there is a chance that the systems have some life in them.

There's a lot to be said for a long-keel steel ketch for a circumnavigation. Fitout and galley look kind of crude, but that might not be the worst compromise to make in selecting a sturdy, inexpensive boat. Looks like it has very nice electronics.

Here's an excellent plastic boat:

1985 Jeanneau Sunshine Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

Looks like it's sold, but something else like this might come up. Jeanneaus of that era are solid, good-sailing boats, with no hull liner, and they have shaft drive. They have inherent value which can justify some investment in renovation in some cases. 25k, tax paid!

Had a look at the Alan Pape Steelmaid 45 lovely looking boat and a good price, am trying to keep under £30k sadly at the moment which is a squeeze I must admit but I think its possible, and I did put a cheeky offer in on it but it was declined.

2nd one, nice too but for me I would personally like a little more deck space.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by Steve Bean

Are there any other ferroboats near you that are insured? If so, by whom?

Very few local ones sadly.

So far the only people who insure ferro boats in the world seems to be:

1, Edward William Marine (Think it is a spanish insurer) works with Northern Reef (Mixed reviews online) (cost £850 p/annum)
Clauses look a bit much: http://northernreef.net/pdf/NORTHERN...01.04.2013.pdf (Survey Not normally required)

2, Basic-Boat (no survey required) 3rd party only.. (£130 p/annum) Mixed reviews online also.

3, Lloyds underwriters (Only for ferro boats made from a builder on their list) which this one does not seem to be).

How do they compare to your own yearly insurance costs? big difference.

[haiqu]

Hartley & Brookes also offer insurance for ferros.

My feeling from this thread - and correct me if I'm wrong here - is that the OP is only looking at such a large boat because of the charter possibilities. Unless he has a master's licence and all his ducks in a row legally this could be fraught with problems. My advice would be to think smaller, a 35'er will be a lot less work to restore and can be had for peanuts.

From my experiences in buying and working on two 80's ferros the biggest problem seems to be leaks in the superstructure, not problems with hulls. Lack of paint and even a few rust marks aren't much of an issue and can be fixed readily. Stupidity of previous owners has been the major issue faced here. Many of them are unloved and have sat for years unattended, with the resulting damage that weather and entropy can bring.

Good luck anyhow, hope you find a good one but if not consider a restoration. It can be rewarding if you have some basic repair skills, which you'll need when you go cruising anyhow.

[hubertstephen]

Hi I have a ferrocement book "harmony" by Patrick Cotten i don't know if he is well known or reliable but his book is really informative.

loa68'2" lod 50'1" dwl 46' beam 17'6" draft 7'10" dis 86000 lbs ballast 26000
loa54'9" lod40'9" dwl 36'10" beam14'6" draft7' dis 56000 lbs ballast 17000
loa46' lod35' dwl 31'3" beam12'6" draft 6'3" dis 30000lbs ballast 10000lbs

hope that helps