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Old 28-02-2016, 18:56   #16
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Hasn't taken long for this thread to get political.

Welcome to CF.

Can anyone answer the OP's question?

Are their countries that 'require' the owner or in otherwirds the nationally registered nominated master to be on the vessel at all times?

Certainly not the case in Australia, so welcome to come this way
The OPs question is a little tricky to answer.

As an Aussie registered vessel there are certain mandatory rules. Rule number one is that an Aussie owned vessel purchased in another country or visiting non Aussie ports must be registered on the Australian ships register.

Ownership on the Australian ships register is divided into 64ths. My wife and I each 'own' 32 / 64ths. (half each)

As to having an owner on board the answer is not clear. To clear customs you need proof of identity and citizenship of each pax. The vessel's provenance is also subject to clarification.

If an owner was not amongst the pax on board then I suspect most customs and border entry personnel would require some documentation to prove legitimate use of the vessel.

If the vessel is veing delivered then a contract would be suitable. But what if an owner had died or was offloaded or arrested and the remaining crew kept cruising?

I guess a zarpe would help in this case.

Any customs or legal types lurking on the forum who could pitch in here?

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Old 28-02-2016, 18:59   #17
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
The OPs question is a little tricky to answer.

As an Aussie registered vessel there are certain mandatory rules. Rule number one is that an Aussie owned vessel purchased in another country or visiting non Aussie ports must be registered on the Australian ships register.

Ownership on the Australian ships register is divided into 64ths. My wife and I each 'own' 32 / 64ths. (half each)

As to having an owner on board the answer is not clear. To clear customs you need proof of identity and citizenship of each pax. The vessel's provenance is also subject to clarification.

If an owner was not amongst the pax on board then I suspect most customs and border entry personnel would require some documentation to prove legitimate use of the vessel.

If the vessel is veing delivered then a contract would be suitable. But what if an owner had died or was offloaded or arrested and the remaining crew kept cruising?

I guess a zarpe would help in this case.

Any customs or legal types lurking on the forum who could pitch in here?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
good points. What's a 'zarpe'?
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Old 28-02-2016, 19:03   #18
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

Notarized letter appointing the Captain should be fine.
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Old 28-02-2016, 19:15   #19
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

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Notarized letter appointing the Captain should be fine.
Why 'notarized' ? Would not a Stat Dec or otherwise witnessed document be sufficient?

Notary's are not real common in Australia and they are usually expensive.
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Old 28-02-2016, 19:22   #20
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

How do you all know the question is about an Aussie registered vessel?
I feel like I missed something obvious, but can't figure out what
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Old 28-02-2016, 19:30   #21
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Why 'notarized' ? Would not a Stat Dec or otherwise witnessed document be sufficient?

Notary's are not real common in Australia and they are usually expensive.
It's confusing. But you are essentially talking about the same thing. Different terminology in different countries.

A Notary Public in the US is close to a "Commissioner or Oaths" in Aus.
(An Australian Notary is a different beast, as is a US Commissioner of Oaths)

A "notarized document" is essentially the equivalent of a "Statutory Declaration" .
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Old 28-02-2016, 19:46   #22
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

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How do you all know the question is about an Aussie registered vessel?
I feel like I missed something obvious, but can't figure out what
We don't . 😜 Just chatting waiting for the op to respond 😉
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Old 28-02-2016, 19:47   #23
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

Oh, haha! I re-read the OP a few times to see what I missed. Doh
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Old 28-02-2016, 21:42   #24
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
It's confusing. But you are essentially talking about the same thing. Different terminology in different countries.

A Notary Public in the US is close to a "Commissioner or Oaths" in Aus.
(An Australian Notary is a different beast, as is a US Commissioner of Oaths)

A "notarized document" is essentially the equivalent of a "Statutory Declaration" .
oh okay I hadn't realised that. I had to get documents 'notarised' by a notary three times in the past, each time requiring a trip to Hobart and appintment with a notary of which at the time Tasmania had just two
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Old 29-02-2016, 12:29   #25
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
The OPs question is a little tricky to answer.

As an Aussie registered vessel there are certain mandatory rules. Rule number one is that an Aussie owned vessel purchased in another country or visiting non Aussie ports must be registered on the Australian ships register.

Ownership on the Australian ships register is divided into 64ths. My wife and I each 'own' 32 / 64ths. (half each)

As to having an owner on board the answer is not clear. To clear customs you need proof of identity and citizenship of each pax. The vessel's provenance is also subject to clarification.

If an owner was not amongst the pax on board then I suspect most customs and border entry personnel would require some documentation to prove legitimate use of the vessel.

If the vessel is veing delivered then a contract would be suitable. But what if an owner had died or was offloaded or arrested and the remaining crew kept cruising?

I guess a zarpe would help in this case.

Any customs or legal types lurking on the forum who could pitch in here?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Interesting, when we transferred the Canadian registration of our current vessel in Canada, we first tried the 32/64 each route. We were forced to do it differently, with other forms that would provide the protection we wanted.

Our goal was, if either of us croaked, the other would legally sail away unchallenged by anyone.
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Old 29-02-2016, 12:45   #26
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pirate Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

This has worked for me in Greece, Spain, Tunisia, Turkey, Caribe, US of A, Panama, French Polynesia, Samoa, Vanuatu, Australia, France and UK.. to name a couple..
As usual.. much ado about nothing..


To whom it may concern



I hereby declare that I…………………………………………………………………

as owner/agent for owner of SV…………………………………………………

Authorize Phillip *** - ****** to assume full and complete

Command of the Sailing Vessel:

Until such time as the Delivery is complete and all Fees and

Expense’s have been settled to mutual satisfaction.



Owner/Agent; Mr/Mrs ………………………………………………


Signature; ……………………………………………………………


Date; ………………………..





+351916482748 deepwaterdeliveries@yahoo.co.uk Skype: Phil Jahans
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Old 29-02-2016, 12:56   #27
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

Back to the OP's literal question and "all the time" the answer must be "no". After all, the owner is normally required to be absent from the boat while going ashore to clear in, clear out, deal with other bureaucratic matters so "all" the time is not going to be required.


But we have had threads over the years requiring the owner or other designated party to be present before a vessel will be allowed to leave a jurisdiction, and as I recall some of them didn't care about "notarized" since a US "notary" is an alien concept to them. The advice had been to get the authorization documents notarized by a "legat", I believe that's the term, and that has international standing and meaning beyond that of a notary public.
You won't find one at the local realtor or drug store, and it won't cost you two bucks, either. At least, not in the Colonies.
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Old 29-02-2016, 13:05   #28
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pirate Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Back to the OP's literal question and "all the time" the answer must be "no". After all, the owner is normally required to be absent from the boat while going ashore to clear in, clear out, deal with other bureaucratic matters so "all" the time is not going to be required.


But we have had threads over the years requiring the owner or other designated party to be present before a vessel will be allowed to leave a jurisdiction, and as I recall some of them didn't care about "notarized" since a US "notary" is an alien concept to them. The advice had been to get the authorization documents notarized by a "legat", I believe that's the term, and that has international standing and meaning beyond that of a notary public.
You won't find one at the local realtor or drug store, and it won't cost you two bucks, either. At least, not in the Colonies.
Costs me a sheet of A4 and the ink to print..
I think the OP lives in the 'Real World'..
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Old 29-02-2016, 13:41   #29
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

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Is it true that in some areas of the world you always have to have the owner on board?
No, it isn't. Where did you hear that?

Perhaps it may help to consider the many thousands of commercial vessels engaged in international voyages. >99% are owned by corporations: in which case, it is impossible for the registered owner to be physically present aboard.
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Old 29-02-2016, 15:41   #30
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Re: Legal owner on board at all times!

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No, it isn't. Where did you hear that?

Perhaps it may help to consider the many thousands of commercial vessels engaged in international voyages. >99% are owned by corporations: in which case, it is impossible for the registered owner to be physically present aboard.
' Commercial vessels' are a completely different kettle of fish. I don't think it helps this thread at all.

Clearly, from the words of those who have been cruising widely, some countries do require some form of authorisation of the 'skipper' from the legitamate owner.
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