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Old 19-04-2012, 11:58   #46
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

You are absolutely right about the market.... If you can afford the boat of your dreams buy her. As for instruction all of the options you listed are good, and lots of sound advice has been given already. I would spend time crewing on boats as often as you can. Join a local sailing club, if one is available, to make contacts and find opportunities to crew. As someone mentioned spending time on sailing dinghys will help you learn to "feel" the boat under sail, and you should have little trouble finding opportunities to crew on smaller boats in sailing club events..... Best of luck
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Old 19-04-2012, 12:45   #47
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

So at least three posts have asked for actual boat specs so here goes. As i said before we are really good at making home anyplace we are, including a 20 ft. travel trailer, of taking what we can get and making it better. and since we don't know what kind of sailors we will be, we can be the kind that love to sail the boat we own.

35' Hallberg-Rassy Rasmus. there are several out there including sloop and ketch rigged. most need upgrade and/or new electronics and electric

38' Seafarer Sloop. again several available and they also would need additional electric and electronic

41 Tartan TOCK. has almost everything we would want, but is the most expensive of the boats and might be overkill in space

36 pearson 365 Ketch. has a lot but is also fairly expensive for our budget

As you can see, one of the common threads is a shallow maximum draft as we will be in Chessy Bay and Caribbean mostly. also want both large water and fuel as we want to be off the grid as much as possible. also want or will eventually outfit with a solar and wind electrical for same reason.

budget seems to indicate late 70's to mid 80's boats. There are a lot of others we have looked at, but these have risen to the top. I have read till i am blue in the face everything there is to read on each of these boats and am still scanning the sites for new additions. We are both divers and one of the things we might consider adding in 4 or 5 years is a compressor for diving tanks, either with its own generator or for use only when we are plugged in.
BTW the CAL 40 mentioned in some earlier posts is not off our radar but i just haven't read enough yet to seriously consider.

Any advice or other boats to look at would be appreciated.
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Old 19-04-2012, 12:52   #48
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

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atoll, you know me, nothing negative was meant by learning from an old salt like you. Hell, if Laura Dekker had learned from you, she wouldn't have been hassled by her government for her desire to solo circumnavigate at the age of 13, instead, they would have shone her the door as they wiped their conservative brows saying "Be gone young lady, disciple of atoll, and stop flashing us a BA." You would have taught her well in the dealings of uptight government officials, right?
Im really starting like atoll a lot!

BAC
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Old 19-04-2012, 15:00   #49
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

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Im really starting like atoll a lot!

BAC
Yep, the more time you spend on CF, the more atoll will grow on you like a fungus. The guy lives boats, only taking time out to party. He has been doing it so long, I'm sure he has more miles under the numerous keels he has plodded along at 6 kt than I do, cranking off the miles at 18 kts.

All aspects of boat maintenance and repair, more deliveries than he can probably remember, and resurrecting forgotten derelicts back into passage capable boats. If you have any questions from sail stitching to anchors, atoll is your man, and he is generous with his vast knowledge.
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Old 19-04-2012, 20:06   #50
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

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New to the forum. Hello! However, have been lurking for 3 years. learning everything i can and reading all the posts about almost everything. So i hope you will understand my anxiety in asking the following question. please read the rest of the post before slamming me--it won't help me or you.

What is the best way to learn to sail AFTER you buy your own boat? Private lessons only? start with ASA classes then private lessons? Do you really need ASA if your sailing your own boat and not ever going to charter etc? just find a really good sailor to teach you how to sail on your own boat?

Here is the deal. We are in a position to buy the boat of our future NOW. market is good and we are financially able to. We live 3 hours from chesapeake Bay and our long term plans are to, within 5 years sell house, retire to boat and sail at first islands and coasts. maybe or maybe not across the big blue.

We have very limited sailing experience, but don't really see trading up several times when we can buy a boat that will do, upgrade her, maintain her, over the next 5 years while we sail on weekends and at least one entire month each summer getting experience in all kinds of conditions, etc.

I know, we are doing this backward. but we have thought about this for a number of years. we know what we want to do. we moved to NYC like this, and it worked. we bought full complement of scuba gear before first class, we think about things and KNOW OURSELVES and what we want.

we understand the financial cost of boat ownership--i know what the slip will cost and what all the upgrades will cost. i am very handy and can do plumbing, electricity and all kinds of things. i can do some myself, some with instruction, and some will hire an expert. So please, unless someone really has a better plan to get us in the water sailing for about 45 days a year for the next 5 years and then retiring early, we are only looking for advice on the Learning to sail on your own boat question.

Thanks for all your advice in the past and the future
J and B

I am going to be "That Guy". The one that tells you that your dream is somewhat flawed ! The guy you may not like too much today, but may appreciate in 5 years. (Yes, I read the whole post)

How is it possible to know what your perfect boat is, when you have no experience worth speaking of? That just doesn't make sense! It creates a massive flaw in your dream. (I am not trying to destroy your dream- rather protect your cheque book- so please bare with me).

Unless you have experienced short keels, long keels, wing keel, center-boarders, 3/4 rigs, masthead rigs, swept back spreaders, center cockpits, aft cockpits (this list is endless) how could you possibly make and educated decision based on a myriad of variables. Sure, you could get some info on the net and out of books. But its not until you experience some of these, that you will really be able to decide what works for you and what you dont want in a boat.

Unless you're only spending 5k on a boat, get some serious cruising in on OPBs to actually feel, see, taste the differences.

Education, Yes. professional is best for several reasons. The primary one is that the courses are designed to not only teach you what to do, but what mistakes to avoid.

You could hire an ASA instructor to work with you, privately, on your own boat (should you continue on that path). You would need to cover him with your own insurance of course.

Good luck with what ever your final decision.
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Old 19-04-2012, 20:24   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozskipper


Unless you have experienced short keels, long keels, wing keel, center-boarders, 3/4 rigs, masthead rigs, swept back spreaders, center cockpits, aft cockpits (this list is endless) how could you possibly make and educated decision based on a myriad of variables. Sure, you could get some info on the net and out of books. But its not until you experience some of these, that you will really be able to decide what works for you and what you dont want in a boat.

.
I generally agree with your premise but I think it a bit too much to have to have actually sailed all these types of boats before buying one. I realize you said some not all but still I have been sailing actively 5 years and have only sailed on about 6-10 "different" boat types. And by different I mean either diffent rigs, sailplans, hull design or construction method.

One can become quite educated about what genal type of boat suits the intended purpose wihtout actually trying them.

I dont need to sail a 50k# ferro hull gaff rig cutter to know its probably not the boat for weekly beer can racing - although I have and can confirm it is not fun...

I do agree buying a boat without any sailing experience raises the probability of buying the wrong boat but I dont know anyone that picked "the" boat the first time out anyway so its not a fatal error.
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Old 19-04-2012, 20:28   #52
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

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but I dont know anyone that picked "the" boat the first time out anyway so its not a fatal error.
Sure you do Dan, me.
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Old 19-04-2012, 20:31   #53
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

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Snip

I do agree buying a boat without any sailing experience raises the probability of buying the wrong boat but I dont know anyone that picked "the" boat the first time out anyway so its not a fatal error.
Agreed! No one buys the perfect boat. They just buy the boat with the least flaws.

The same philosophy as no one ever sails a perfect race- they just make less mistakes. :-D
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Old 19-04-2012, 20:39   #54
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

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Agreed! No one buys the perfect boat. They just buy the boat with the least flaws.

:-D
I thought it was perfect for about 1500 nm, then met up with a Santa Cruz 50.
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Old 19-04-2012, 20:58   #55
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Sure you do Dan, me.
Ha, ha, ha...

Just read a few threads. Everyone has the perfect boat. The one they own currently - LOL...
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Old 19-04-2012, 21:01   #56
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

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So at least three posts have asked for actual boat specs so here goes. As i said before we are really good at making home anyplace we are, including a 20 ft. travel trailer,

SNIP

41 Tartan TOCK. has almost everything we would want, but is the most expensive of the boats and might be overkill in space


SNIP

Any advice or other boats to look at would be appreciated.
Way back in the 1960s when I was an undergrad I was visiting a friend who lived in a trailer and discussing him getting a boat when he made the same point you are trying to make. I replied you can stand up, hold your arms out to your sides and walk 10 or 15 feet in a straight line in almost every trailer I have ever seen, but the same can not be said for most boats that do not cost six or seven figures. Things like running hot and cold water, reliable 120v electric, a toilet that is dependable, and access to a washing machine are taken for granted in a trailer; not so in a boat.

I am not sure what you mean by "might be overkill in space" but every cruise I have ever been on I wished I had more space and I will bet lots of guys here will agree with me on this.

I started sailing with my Dad in the 1950s when he graduated from med school and returned to his home town of Miami. I raced one designs in high school, was on the college sailing team, coached the sailing team in grad school, and have sailed ever since. I am currently in the market for a coastal cruiser I can single hand and trailer. Some of my options are a Stiletto 27, F24, F27, F28 (currently in first place but that could change), F31, Dragonfly, Contour 31, and an out of the box Woods 36 that I could not trailer.

Any advice on other boats I should consider would be welcome.

One thing the boat must be able to do is have a place I can store my AirLine Hooka that I like for diving instead of taking heavy tanks that can bang around like they did in Jaws and a compressor to fill them.
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Old 19-04-2012, 22:25   #57
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

Come on Guys ! The perfect boat is the next one ya buy !! you should know that !!!LOL
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Old 19-04-2012, 22:32   #58
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

The pefect boat was the one I passed up to buy a larger one (Herreshoff H-28). However, it would have only been perfect for about 6 years.
kind regards,
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Old 19-04-2012, 22:46   #59
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

Hi JB,

I really haven't been sailing long enough to give you a good answer, but I thought I would post some of my experiences and observations as food for thought.

Over the past 5 years I've taken ASA101-105 and I learned alot from them. (and as a side note, my insurance counted ASA101 as a "safe boating class" which did get me a discount). I strongly recommend the classes because they worked for well for me.

When I took ASA101 about half the people in class were, like me, boatless. By the time I got to 105 I was the only class member who didn't own a boat.

At the time I started taking the courses the idea of buying a boat was pretty ludicrous...I'm a jr high teacher, my wife was still in school, we had just bought a house...so I took the lessons, crewed for friends and family, chartered a couple of times...and then the perfect boat showed up at a perfect price, and now she's mine .

I don't know if any of that is helpful in the least...

My gut feeling is that you should consider taking a course (maybe a combo course with lots of water-time) and then buy the boat you want and learn to sail her.

Good Luck!
-Owl
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Old 19-04-2012, 23:00   #60
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Re: Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat

Well, why not go with the widest variables among the sailboat options?: monohull, catamaran, and trimaran. Each has its charms, and sailing on all may give you a revelation you might not ever have expected.
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