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Old 04-02-2012, 21:29   #31
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Re: Oh dear. We do have a different view of things.

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Hey, the OP asked a question that deserved two viewpoints.
PS-- I really appreciate that, there is value in a two sided conversation.

It gets a bit creepy when everyone agrees.

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And that is arrogant as well. I'm a bright fellow, but I know my limitations. While I could certainly teach many subjects, the person that can teach ALL courses at an advanced level--not just keep ahead in the book but have true mastery of them all--is very rare. I could perhaps teach any class... but I know I shouldn't and that I wouldn't do them the justice a team could.
I don't want to pile on to you with Rebel Heart, but... I feel you may be over estimating how difficult the material is in high school. Especially as taught. My wife taught college science, and briefly taught high school science, and ... feels that, at least in California, the science curriculum for high school kids is exactly wrong for most students. This is of course a longer conversation, but what I think is interesting about her anecdote is that even an "expert" in a field may feel constrained by the system and the mechanical way most kids approach school, and may not be able to teach the class in a way that is as good as a non-expert (but of course motivated) parent could teach their child.
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Old 04-02-2012, 21:48   #32
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

If I remember, Steve & Linda Dashew's two girls had different feelings about cruising, the younger one loved it, the older one tolerated it. Being socially addicted to staying in touch via modern media, text, tweets, Facebook, could still work while cruising. I do think younger kids are more adaptable to the cruising lifestyle, but to keep the spirits up for the older kids, their own dinghy could go a long way.
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Old 04-02-2012, 22:06   #33
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

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Being socially addicted to staying in touch via modern media, text, tweets, Facebook, could still work while cruising.
At the very least the experiences will give them an interesting profile:

xkcd: Bored with the Internet
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Old 04-02-2012, 22:27   #34
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Re: Oh dear. We do have a different view of things.

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There are a great many thing parents can decide for children that are, unfortunately, dead wrong. I am simply presenting a dissenting view for others to read. I am greatly distressed with your belief that unilateral decision making is the POINT of being a parent; it may be required and it may be a legal right, but it isn't best or wise. It's certainly contrasts with your "citizen of the world" free-thinking manifesto.
Making medium and long-term decisions for children is the point of being a parent, whether they are unilateral or not is moderately irrelevant. Consultation and consensus is certainly a nice mode of operation and is that the way my household normally runs, but in the end the parent-child relationship is not a democracy as you seem to be espousing. A child does not have enough impulse control and forward thinking to make long-term or even medium-term decisions, the brain development just isn't there.

I admit that into the teens there are socialization and friendship issues that need to be taken into account, but that's the job of being a parent, balancing those costs against the cultural, self-reliance and critical-thinking gains to be made.

Thinwater, if you are going to try and bust my balls for my views at least keep
track of what those views are. To the best of my recollection, the first time I ever typed the phrase 'citizen of the world' is just now in this post, this sentence. It's not hard to look back thru a thread and see what people really wrote, try it some time.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:04   #35
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Re: Oh dear. We do have a different view of things.

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And is it what the kids want? Parents also select military school, Catholic school, and ordinary boarding schools, because they believe that is best. They simply can't all be right or all be wrong. It's not simple.

If the answer is yes, then go for it. You'll do fine.
I went to a Catholic Secondary school (private) - never had any religion beforehand - never had any after! Father thought it would keep me out of prison, and he was at least half right about that . never been prosecuted for anything . The funny thing is that half of my year (90 kids?) did get into legal problems - including a couple of armed robbers, albeit they were inept .....but it was an odd year.....

Worst effect on me (and arguably still ongoing ) is that it was a single sex school - I really did miss out on that socialisation side at a crucial age. Academically it wasn't that clever either, albeit one only realises that in hindsight.

But fortunately by secondary school age I had passed the stage of looking cute and was never musical (tone deaf ) - school used to get through Music Teachers at a rather too rapid rate . Plus a few others were more than a little suspect.........hell, one headmaster even ran off with a pupil, albeit from a nearby girl's school .....he got redeployed into Brazil, I wonder how that went .

With regard to the 14 yo, I would not say don't take him but IMO you do need to consider his position carefully (and diffferently) from the younger siblings - might be a case of keeping him in touch with his freinds electronically, even if at the price of visiting places you might not have chosen and maybe even inviting a freind or 2 onboard (or going somewhere they could visit) - even if you would prefer not to.

At the end of the day (childhood!) the kid will need to not only be able to deal with the world ashore but also be capable of prospering and have future choices of his own - whether or not the parents think ashore is Soddom & Gomorah ........and that includes the people ashore, not simply by collecting exams / learning stuff (although in the modern age that is important). Besides, Soddom & Gomorah can be quite fun .

But I still think that if done with some thought that the plusses would outweigh the minuses. from both the exposure to other cultures (learning da lingo would be a big gain) and from having real responsibilities.

Having said all that, will add that never taken any kids aboard, nor ever intend to (I ain't got none and sure as sh#t don't want to pay for any 2nd hand ones) - nor as a child when on any major voyages, but did get to have extend vacations onboard (in France) over multiple months for many years (from toddler to teens). Sometimes it was fun, sometimes it was duller than a dull thing - on a dull day, especially as I got older.....sitting and admiring the view is for old people who appreciate that all the more from simply having been through the onshore mill of life - for a kid the world is a new and exciting place, with challenges and both good and bad experiances - at least (IMO) it should be.

In practice if I ever get any kids - will probably lock 'em in a cupboard 24/7 . I thinks it's called homeschooling...........
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:52   #36
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

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If I remember, Steve & Linda Dashew's two girls had different feelings about cruising, the younger one loved it, the older one tolerated it. Being socially addicted to staying in touch via modern media, text, tweets, Facebook, could still work while cruising. I do think younger kids are more adaptable to the cruising lifestyle, but to keep the spirits up for the older kids, their own dinghy could go a long way.
That's sort of the overriding issue and it's why anyone on this forum can really only speak in generalities. The personalities of the parents and kids, the resources, and a bit of luck all go into it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:10   #37
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

Ultimately the reason for going & knowing how your kids would handle it are something only you would know. Reading and learning from others that have done it does give better perspective and the ability to decide if it's a good direction.

We are a family that sold the house and bought the boat. Our reason was financial with the dream to go coming in second, we needed to relocate to make it. Would we have sold the house if mortgage & job weren't an issue? Probably not. We enjoyed living on a small 20 acre farm 25 miles from the nearest towns, I already home schooled my kids and didn't run to all the activities that most parents do. The transition for my kids wasn't hard, just different. We have only had one regret. Peter's grandpa lived right next door and the kids would go visit every other day. They miss him & have been in tears over the possibility of not seeing him again. We've been told that our move, not seeing the kids, was harder on Grandpa than Grandma going. Ideally our move would have been best done after Grandpa was gone and we knew that before we listed the house.

IF you have options assess them; waiting could be beneficial just as going now could. Know what your & your kids' regrets would be; would they out weigh the move onto a boat?
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:13   #38
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

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We have only had one regret. Peter's grandpa lived right next door and the kids would go visit every other day. They miss him & have been in tears over the possibility of not seeing him again. We've been told that our move, not seeing the kids, was harder on Grandpa than Grandma going. Ideally our move would have been best done after Grandpa was gone and we knew that before we listed the house.
That part made me a bit sad. I am currently in a holding pattern, taking care of my 92 year old dad. How old is Grandpa and how difficult would it be for him to fly out and meet up with you and the kids?
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Old 05-02-2012, 17:57   #39
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

Grandpa is over 90. (We've lost count of the actual number; he's in the bracket that you celebrate birthdays but forget the number.) He's not able to sit for long distances as it really hurts him, just going to town is sometimes too much & he needs to lay down. We call him a few times a week & send packages, for now it's what we can do. A photo album filled with pictures (mostly of the kids) of our journey so far meant the most to him. Maybe later this year something else will work out and we'll all be able to spend some time with him.
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Old 05-02-2012, 18:16   #40
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

@Nadejda,

Those pictures really are uplifting for the older generation. My brother and sister, their kids and grand kids don't visit dad very much. I collect from some of them, email attached jpgs that I load on a memory stick for the 15" digital picture frame I got dad awhile back.
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Old 05-02-2012, 19:20   #41
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

I'd say the decision is the 14yr olds. If he/she thinks its cool, the others will adapt.
Homeschooling is the only way to go. This countrys new policy with no child left behind means teaching to the stupid kids levels. Sorry, harsh, but true. Home school, CLEP anything they can, and get your kids on to college level as soon as possible imo. Your milage may vary.

We have a similar situation. 17, 3, and 1
We couldnt pull him out of school, it would have killed him!!! lol
In a year he'll be graduated, and the girls will still be young. We bought the boat and are going to weekend and vacation with it. Go from there.
You guys have some hard ages to deal with.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:14   #42
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Re: Kids Aboard vs Wait ... WHEN ?

I am an Air Force brat that grew up outside of the US from the ages of 5-17. There wasn't a 'seasonal test'. My dad was following his passion and we were fortunate enough to be apart of it! I am in the same 'boat' you are in now. I have married into a family with two beautiful girls and their mother (the girls from my last marriage are now adults), and we sail every weekend we can on the Ches Bay. My wife and I have discussed the possibilities of doing just what you speak of but seeing that she has never lived in another state...she can't comprehend living in other countries.

Having lived all around the world as a child, I would say if you have the finances to do it...then DO IT! There is a reason why you have the passion to do it....and a reason why you had kids. You have to live your passion, I feel this is the most important lesson we teach our children.

The only regret I would say I have about it all..... it is harder for me to live in America because of the exact reasons you said in your initial post. The readers that have never lived abroad....surely don't understand your message....but there are some of us that understand all to clearly the concerns you have.
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:33   #43
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Re: Kids aboard VS wait... WHEN?

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Plenty of blah from a guy who has no children, but have seen plenty of cruising kids, happy and not so.
Barnakiel,

I'm curious about the unhappy boat kids you've met. Can you ellaborate a bit, please? What did they not like? Was it the lifestyle itself? Were they maybe unhappy with their parents' attitudes and expectations? What ages were they?

I've only read about the happy kids, even interacted with a couple. But I've never read or talked to one who wasn't happy with the cruising lifestyle. I'm sure they're there and I'd like to know about them and possibly glean some experience because soon my own 2 kids will be boat kids.

Thanks!
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:36   #44
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Re: Kids Aboard vs Wait ... WHEN ?

Well we did it with 3 girls all within 2 yrs of one another and a almost teen boy!! they ALL did not want to go !! but ya know all of em were home schooled by an RN and an old fisherman, all but the boy finished Collage and he's a Cat Mech. one is an RN like connie and the other girl is a small business owner and doe's WELL and ya know what, they All come and sail with us every time they can !! and as far as all there eletrical stuff there is sat stuff avaiable for vessels that can handle all of that !! maybe a little expensive but it would take care of the email and stuff ! as a parent I feel we as adults have to make the choices how and where our family lives ! Coddleing kids is the biggest problem going on with todays children. Think what you like but in our home we were the bosses not the kids !! Just OUR 2 cents Connie and Bob
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Old 09-02-2012, 16:29   #45
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Re: Kids Aboard vs Wait ... WHEN ?

I would have to agree with Barnakiel as I have also seen unhappy teenagers out cruising. The problem arises with the age at which you take them from their land society to the cruising society environment.

The two younger children should adapt quite nicely and really benefit from the experience - if you are really talking about cruising the world - outside the USA - not just coastal cruising the USA (and Bahamas).

Since you stated your desire to extricate you and your family from the USA social environment, you are then talking about places other than USA and it territories (islands). In these other places the whole "texting/social network" experience is not normal and generally not available.

Just personal opinion, but getting the kids "disconnected from the virtual world" and back into the "real world" of live human interactions is a primary goal. The benefits will be when they do rejoin the American society they will be in command of their lives and be able to take command of their futures.

Only you can evaluate whether or not the "teen" can disconnect and rejoin the real world. But if it is possible then you have a high probability of restoring the "family" as a whole unit working together for exploring the real world and its cultures. Many families have done it so you are not trailblazing.
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