Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-09-2018, 08:03   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

Hi. Newby question. I've searched but can't find an answer.


I'm looking at buying my first boat, and as soon as I do I'll move onto it, ideally in the med, and spend a few months getting used to living on it. If I like it as much as I think I will I'll continue to live on it full time, but not based out of one spot.


I'm looking for insurance quotes at the moment, and was thinking that would class me as a "liveaboard". But is that right? Now I have a doubt that liveaboard is someone who lives out of a marina, or moored up in a canal. Am I asking for the right cover? Maybe what I need is cruisers insurance?


What if I change my mind and decide to only spend a few months onboard and then haul out and continue the journey the following year?



Also I'm hoping to get down to Greece and Turkey. Is there a reason insurance asks you how far east you're planning on being? Is there increased risk the further E and S you go?



I want to describe my situation accurately, but don't want to use the wrong terminology that leads to a higher premium for the wrong coverage. Any help/advice/expeirence/links welcome.



I'm getting quotes that are about 1% of the value of the boat. Does that seem right?
__________________

andypag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 10:05   #2
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,352
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

You already know the answer. If you have a residence somewhere on the land, you are not a liveaboard. If you're moving aboard the boat--as you say--and that's your primary or sole residence, then you're a liveaboard.

If you're a liveaboard but you maintain something that passes as a paper residence on land...you can fool the paperpushers but if you have to place a claim, they can cut you off for insurance fraud.
__________________

hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 07:38   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

So are liveaboard premiums more expensive than cruising ones?
andypag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 08:11   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
SV Bacchus's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Presently cruising the Bahamas
Boat: Leopard 42 OV
Posts: 1,215
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

You should tell your insurance broker exactly what you told us and let him/her tell you what they think and why. You can then go with it or shop around for another broker.

We do have a house in Florida and we have a 42' cat. Our insurance broker asked if we are liveaboards. I explained we have a house but our plan was to take the boat and head to the islands. I explained this class of boat would accommodate us for 6 months, 9 months or possibly a year and that when we left we had no solid plans of when we would return. I speculated it would be at least 6 months but probably less than a year.

The broker listened intently and said "We are listing you as a liveaboard, safer as you will be covered in your somewhat fluid state of travel." I think he made a pun at the end but hey, we got the coverage to best suit us by laying it all out.
__________________
SV Bacchus - Living the good life!
SV Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 08:37   #5
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 4,138
Images: 83
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

Good advice above.

Are you an EU citizen? If not, you will have trouble staying in the EU for an extended time. Longer than 90 days is the issue. Many other threads on this here on the CF.

You will also need to pay VAT or buy a boat that has already paid it if you propose to keep it there.
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 11:55   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: On a boat in Greece
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 473
Posts: 38
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Good advice above.

Are you an EU citizen? If not, you will have trouble staying in the EU for an extended time. Longer than 90 days is the issue. Many other threads on this here on the CF.

You will also need to pay VAT or buy a boat that has already paid it if you propose to keep it there.
I agree with your point that if the OP isn't an EU resident he/she may have difficulty staying in the EU for longer than 90 out of any 280 day rolling period.

I disagree with your suggestion that he/she will need to buy a VAT paid boat to keep it in the EU. For s non-EU resident you can temporarily import s non VAT paid boat for up to 18 months and all you need to do is have a receipt of being out of the EU for a day and you can start the 18 meth period again. If the OP chose to become an residentin an EU country (& this was granted) he/she would effectively be required to have a VAT paid boat.
LACHLANC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 12:30   #7
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 4,138
Images: 83
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LACHLANC View Post
I agree with your point that if the OP isn't an EU resident he/she may have difficulty staying in the EU for longer than 90 out of any 280 day rolling period.

I disagree with your suggestion that he/she will need to buy a VAT paid boat to keep it in the EU. For s non-EU resident you can temporarily import s non VAT paid boat for up to 18 months and all you need to do is have a receipt of being out of the EU for a day and you can start the 18 meth period again. If the OP chose to become an residentin an EU country (& this was granted) he/she would effectively be required to have a VAT paid boat.
You can temp import. Unfortunately you cannot stay as long as your boat (non citizens)

The rule on people is not 90 of 280. It is 90 of any rolling period of 180. This makes staying legally for a full annual cycle for safe hurricane transits impossible unless you spend extended periods outside the EU zone. Morocco, Israel, Croatia, Turkey or other. Many scofflaws ignore this at their own risk and tell you No Problem. Getting nabbed will cost a lot. There are a few treaties on which Americans can stretch the time if they stay in the correct countries in the correct order. Cary a copy of the treaty with you.
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 12:38   #8
Are you serious?
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 15,218
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

I’m paying a little over 1% for insurance. Never have been asked if I was a live aboard or cruiser.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 12:58   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: On a boat in Greece
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 473
Posts: 38
Re: Is this "liveaboard" for insurance purposes?

The 280 day number was a typo - it was meant to be 180 and I should have checked more carefully. My point was that you made the claim that the boat was required to the VAT paid which was incorrect (unless the OP became an EU resident and your schengen point became null & void).

With reference to staying in the Med without residency in a Schegen country, many people do it easily using countries like Croatia & Turkey without having to revert to crossing the Atlantic.

P.S. Croatia is in the EU - I think you're confused with it not being part of the Schengen area.
__________________

LACHLANC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
insurance, liveaboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Copy of a full survey needed for reference purposes. AFKASAP General Sailing Forum 8 29-09-2015 13:16
Using a PLB for Other Purposes GreggL Health, Safety & Related Gear 6 24-11-2012 06:30
StackPack and Weight Considerations for Racing Purposes sandycohen Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 6 04-08-2011 16:15
Valuation of boat for VAT purposes espresso Europe & Mediterranean 5 05-01-2009 09:55
Knife - Safety purposes ireaney Multihull Sailboats 21 24-09-2008 23:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.