Is sailing without boat insurance becoming a "standard"?

[Churchill]

I am slowly getting into cruising longer distances with the goal of heading down from Canada to Mexico and beyond. Yet I am constantly told by folks who do this type of sailing that they do not carry insurance. Can someone help me with this. Has insurance for a $100,000 boat become cost prohibitive?

[David M]

Gawd I hope not. What if they hit me? It sounds like a damned irresponsible thing to do and all it will serve to do is jack up the rates for people who do pay insurance premiums.

Just like cars, if you cant afford to pay the insurance then perhaps you should not be driving? I don't mean you Churchill.

[Rubikoop]

A topic I have spent hours thinking about and discussing with others. The vast majority of the people I know with boats that live here do not have insurance nor do they have $100k boats. Most of their vessels, sail and power, probably fall in the $30k-$80k range.

After purchasing my boat I looked into getting just liability insurance and the quotes I got were what I determined to be cost prohibitive. For roughly three years of premiums I could replace my boat. I have never not had insurance on anything before and do not like it now. There is just no way for me to justify annually investing 1/3 of my boat's value into a policy that will more or less cover my negligence. If I hit your boat, I'll just pay to have it fixed. If my boat sinks tomorrow, it would suck but not be the end of the world. I'll just use the fat boat kitty that has been holding my imaginary premiums for years and start shopping for a replacement.

So I guess by some peoples definition I am damned irresponsible and should not be driving. On the flip side, I am ultra conservative when anchoring and manuvering around other vessels, especially mega-yachts, knock on wood.

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by Rubikoop

A topic I have spent hours thinking about and discussing with others. The vast majority of the people I know with boats that live here do not have insurance nor do they have $100k boats. Most of their vessels, sail and power, probably fall in the $30k-$80k range.

After purchasing my boat I looked into getting just liability insurance and the quotes I got were what I determined to be cost prohibitive. For roughly three years of premiums I could replace my boat. I have never not had insurance on anything before and do not like it now. There is just no way for me to justify annually investing 1/3 of my boat's value into a policy that will more or less cover my negligence. If I hit your boat, I'll just pay to have it fixed. If my boat sinks tomorrow, it would suck but not be the end of the world. I'll just use the fat boat kitty that has been holding my imaginary premiums for years and start shopping for a replacement.

So I guess by some peoples definition I am damned irresponsible and should not be driving. On the flip side, I am ultra conservative when anchoring and manuvering around other vessels, especially mega-yachts, knock on wood.

I'm with you. If I get into an accident that's my fault, I'll pay. I'm careful. Real careful. I stay well clear of any mega-yachts (they're too loud and stinky anyway).

The simple fact that insurance exists as a business should tell you that statistically speaking, you're going to come out a loser. I always carry the minimum required by law.

[oldsalt_1942]

I always looked at insurance as betting against yourself.

[Weyalan]

Do a search on "cruising without insurance" there are pages and pages of threads discussing the viability / desirability / responsibility of such actions.

Without getting into the ethics too much, I would say that around here, most marinas will no allow you entry if you do not carry liability insurance. Also, just for what it is worth, I do carry insurance, and my current inurance policy covers me for, I think $15,000,000 liability and my annual premium is approximately 1% of the boat's insured value.

[JiffyLube]

When we bought our boat for cash, and then upgraded it with more cash, I decided I wanted protection against losing that cash...that took me years to save. I see insurance as the responsible thing I should be doing to protect not only me, but others...just like auto insurance. Yes, I know it seems like money down the drain, just like slip fees, but it's a cost of boat ownership. If I damaged someone elses boat, I doubt the money not spent on insurance would cover repairs, especially when you consider how much boat yards cost. The person you hit is going to want top notch work, and good work does not come cheap. I mean, if someone damaged my boat, I would expect it to be repaired to the same level of quality it was in before the damage...and if I got a bunch of static from the person that hit me, I'm getting a lawyer fast! So if any of you nice guys hit my boat, you better have good insurance, or a 'boat' load of money!...lol

[Churchill]

I've been amazed at the varied responses to my question. Initially I thought evryone would say"Absolutely, Churchill, don't be such an idiot. Everyone carries insurance!" However I now see that is not the case. What would insurance cost for a $100,000 boat.Rough ballpark figure. $5,000...$10,000? I insure my house, my car, my boat. Am I missing something here?

Originally Posted by Churchill

I've been amazed at the varied responses to my question. Initially I thought evryone would say"Absolutely, Churchill, don't be such an idiot. Everyone carries insurance!" However I now see that is not the case. What would insurance cost for a $100,000 boat.Rough ballpark figure. $5,000...$10,000? I insure my house, my car, my boat. Am I missing something here?

That is a question with no simple answer. How old is your boat? How big? Are you insuring the hull? or just liability? Are you going for full replacement value or depreciated value? For ocean crossings? short-handed or fully crewed? or local cruisng? All of these have HUGE impacts on the cost. Anyone who tries to answer your question without knowing all of the variables is most likely giving very misleading information.

Rather than asking here why don't you talk to a broker? They will supply you with quotes for free, and if you chose your broker wisely, you will get better, more accurate answers than you will get from us.

[Sailabel]

Churchill- first- I agree- you need to speak with a broker to get ideas on the cost for your boat and your cruising areas.

But, since you asked about cruising with or without insurance- we've found that quite a few cruisers opt to be self-insured. Some of us (me included) have opted to maintain insurance, in that we really can't afford to lose our investment. Our insurance is less than 2.5% of our hull value. When in the US, BoatUS provided us with the best deal, but when we left the country, they were no longer an option. We are currently insured for passages with just my wife and I, agreed hull value of $93k, $2K deductible, and a cost of less than $2,500 per year. This is with Mexico as our current cruising grounds. The cost will go up a bit once we head to the South Pacific.

Steve

[capcook]

My advice (and I don't even own a boat yet..) is to only insure what you can't afford to lose. I do this on my other assets e.g. house and plane... Very large deductibles make you a partner with the insurance company in protecting the asset and they like that.... so $10k or $20k deductibles if you can handle a loss like that... I intend to have decdutibles in the 10-20% of the insured value of a boat, but I would not be comfortable with a 100% deductible and unlimited liability for other's damage which is what you are signing up for if you don't have any insurance.. not if you have any other assets to lose...

Cheers

[anotherT34C]

Also, don't assume that just because you (or the guy who hit you) are 'insured' the company is just going to pay without a fight. If it's a bigish claim, you can expect them to go over it with a fine comb and use ANY legal excuse to not pay.

At least when your number hits in Vegas, the house pays right up.

I agree with those who say to insure only what you can't afford to lose. As for liability, hell I could accidentally hit a pedestrian with my bicycle and be sued for $5mil (welcome to the litigious society), but I'm not about to go through life scared. If I accidentally scratch someone else's boat (be it with my own sailboat, my kayak, or my bicycle at the dock) and they insist that I pay for some exotic repair job (rather than an appropriate repair at the local boatyard) then they will have to break out the lawyers. Luckily, my wife's one.

[Randyonr3]

Its not just getting insurance but keeping it in the places you want to go. Many companys will NOT provide insurance in places where losses have accured.
We traveled south to Mexico a couple years ago, notified the company and they put a "rider" on the policy so we were good going down, but had to be out of the area by a certain time.. called when we were heading back up and found that we were not covered going north. We have also found that most insurance companies require minamum of 4 people to do a crossing or to be off shore over 100 miles..
We have insurance now because were required to by the marina but when we leave, the insurance payments will be deverted into better ground tackle.
By the way, my boat is insured to 150k with 300k in liabity and my yearly payment is around 12-hundred.

[gettinthere]

You may be willing to gamble on the value of your boat. But what about the damages you could do to other boats, other people or the environment? You could be liable for quite a bit of money should you get involved with any of those issues.

[gonesail]

liability insurance is cheap. when you start talking about return on the value of your boat then you will see the much higher premiums.