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Old 04-12-2012, 00:42   #1
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Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

I hope this is posted in the correct place?
Couldn't believe what I was reading today. My Insurance campany has calculated that they can save some money by not insuring moored boats. The mind boggles.
Anybody else get this letter from Nautalis?
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Re: Declined Renewal
Policy #: PRI-
Due Date: 5
th January 2013

We refer to the above mentioned policy and advise that Nautilus Marine no longer offers
comprehensive insurance on any pleasure craft permanently moored on a swing mooring
or moored on its own anchor in Victoria and New South Wales.
We ask that you confirm that the current information regarding the manner in which your
boat is moored is correct. If mooring methods have changed please contact us
immediately.
Nautilus Marine can assist with offering Third Party Legal Liability cover subject to our
standard underwriting acceptance guidelines. If you wish to obtain further information
regarding this cover, please contact us Toll Free on 1300 780 533.
Please note that our inability to offer renewal for comprehensive cover does not relate to
an assessment of the risk and as such you do not have to disclose our decision when
applying for future insurance.
We do regret the inconvenience caused by this decision.
If you are dissatisfied with our decision you may request that it be reviewed by our
Internal Disputes Resolution (IDR) committee. Please refer your correspondence to The
Internal Disputes Manager, Nautilus Marine Insurance Agency, 28-32 George Street,
Sandringham, VIC 3191 outlining the reasons why you feel this decision should be
reviewed.
Yours sincerely,
Underwriting Department
Nautilus Marin
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:39   #2
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

How odd. It seems as though they only want to target trailer boats and those in marinas. One could assume there has been an increase in either crime or incidents relating to moored boats.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:10   #3
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

Avast, good idea, if I was an insurance company I would do the same, only insure it if it stays in the marina!! Ha!!!

I was on a newly installed government mooring in Phuket for 5 days, when it failed at 3am in the morning, 1 day ago and I drifted onto a huge dive charter boat, still dragging the mooring buoy and rope. It came off at the concrete block, a brand new mooring, only installed for 1 day before I got on it! Luckily, no damage done!!

Now... back on my good old 25 kilo bugle anchor, it will hold me?

No moorings for me from now on!

Cheers from Keith.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:44   #4
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmachine View Post
Avast, good idea, if I was an insurance company I would do the same, only insure it if it stays in the marina!! Ha!!!

I was on a newly installed government mooring in Phuket for 5 days, when it failed at 3am in the morning, 1 day ago and I drifted onto a huge dive charter boat, still dragging the mooring buoy and rope. It came off at the concrete block, a brand new mooring, only installed for 1 day before I got on it! Luckily, no damage done!!

Now... back on my good old 25 kilo bugle anchor, it will hold me?

No moorings for me from now on!

Cheers from Keith.
Sorry. Looks like using your anchor is out as well.
I have just spent around $1200 having a new mooring put down in Sydney by A reputable contractor recommended by the Waterways Authority and well overrated for my yacht. Its not going anywhere.
I would have thought cyclone areas would have been more of a risk.
I spoke to them on the phone and they told me that the statistics indicated that this was going to save them money.
It's probably true. Because the number of claims by moored yachts is probably huge as is the number of moored Yachts in these states.
I assume they have these figures for comparison?

The worst thing about this is that its just plain dumb, and discriminates against everyone that loves there boat and will spend whatever it takes to keep it safe and in a seaworthy state.
It could also set a precedent and start the other insures off doing the same, which will make boat ownership harder and probably devalue allot of excellent older boats.
Thanks heaps Nautilus Marine. I hope your proud of your been counters. I will hopefully be able to find another insurer quick enough so that I can get some satisfaction in demanding whatever refund is owing to me. I intend to collect no matter how small it is.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:16   #5
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

Interesting to note that it is comprehensive insurance ... damage to one's own boat ... which is now proscribed.

As it is an insurance company, I'm sure there is good maths to back up the conclusion. Probably a spike in "mooring ball" accidents leading to a wirte-off of the boats in question. Might have something to do with the current economic climate and the southward plunge in yacht prices.

The only other possible conclusion I can think of is a rise in moored boat ransackings ... but that seems unlikely.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:57   #6
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

Does anyone know how many moored boats there are in Sydney & Pitt water? If I had to guess I would think there would have to be at least 10 000 in Sydney alone. I can count at least 140 in my bay.
Time will tell, but I think they have made a colossal mistake. They are alienating thousands of boat owners.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:42   #7
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoohaa View Post
Does anyone know how many moored boats there are in Sydney & Pitt water? If I had to guess I would think there would have to be at least 10 000 in Sydney alone. I can count at least 140 in my bay.
Time will tell, but I think they have made a colossal mistake. They are alienating thousands of boat owners.
It may not be thier market. Perhaps they specialise in the big end of town like Shannons do with Cars. Considering the amount of Boat Insurance Co's there are, specialising would be sensible. Anchorage, Club Marine, Trident, GIO, NRMA, QBE, thats just off the top of my head.

There is nothing wrong with alienating part of a market you dont want. In fact it can work to your benefit ;-)
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:54   #8
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

Hmm... For S((s and giggles, I thought I would see what happened if i tried to insure with them.. I used a 100k Bene, swing moored at Gosford as the basis for the quote.. They quoted it!!! :-D
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:10   #9
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

hoohaa, I'm afraid I might be losing something in translation. Ozzie just sounds so much like what we Colonials think is English that sometimes it is hard to understand. The letter refers to "craft permanently moored on" and to my way of thinking, a craft PERMANENTLY MOORED would be one chained to the mooring gear with the chain welded in place. The way that a buoy might be "permanently" moored in one location, never moved except by the tender for maintenance.

I'm thinking those insurers would best be called a horse's patootie, and no, that ain't the end you feed apples to.

Permanently moored. That's the boat you see sitting in concrete, selling lobster rolls and fries in some tourist spot, isn't it?
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Old 04-12-2012, 14:01   #10
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Having a 40+ yo boat in the cyclone region of qld on a swing mooring just ask me what I think of aus insurers! Ps I hear suncorp are about to do the same thing.
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Old 04-12-2012, 15:00   #11
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post

Permanently moored. That's the boat you see sitting in concrete, selling lobster rolls and fries in some tourist spot, isn't it?

No dopey, it's bloody mooring, common and garden type mooring vis a vie BIVs mooring. You know bit of rope off a pennant attached to a rusty chain to an small bock of concrete they charge stupid amounts for per month type mooring.



But, Hellosailor, extrapolate the point... The insurance companies won't insure you if you are "only" on a mooring... So they have never wanted to insure you when you are cruising the Australian coast, let alone sailing to some other countries coast! It's crazy for cruisers. Because all the marinas want insurance. So if you cruise up the coast from home your insurance cuts out BUT you can't drop into a marina for a night!

So I can tell you there is no need for me to ever criticize the way the USA does things. In my 6 months here I get insurance for a negligible cost, tow insurance for a laughably low amount, cheap marinas, marinas with FREE curtesy cars and the food is cheap in the supermarkets and restaurants!
I am in bliss and I laugh at my Australian mates Ha! ha!

Nautalis is not really an insurance company at all! "Nautilus Marine Insurance Agency (ABN 34 100 633 038 AFSL 227186) acts as the managing agents for the insurers who are certain underwriters at Lloyd's "
So they don't need to get their hands dirty on real insurance which is a cooperative of people sharing risk. They are just profit making scum. Only taking risk where there is no risk!


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Old 04-12-2012, 15:29   #12
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

G'Day all,

One wonders why, if they were experiencing "excessive losses" on moored boats, they didn't simply increase the premium for those vessels?

I have third party insurance through Nautilus, and just renewed it for the year. Didn't get any wash about mooring... but then, we're not on a mooring!

We were "self insured" for many years, and only took out this coverage because it has become difficult to use either a marina or a slipway here in Oz without at least third party (liability in Yank talk) coverage. A PITA for sure...

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Old 04-12-2012, 15:42   #13
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

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G'Day all,

One wonders why, if they were experiencing "excessive losses" on moored boats, they didn't simply increase the premium for those vessels?

I have third party insurance through Nautilus, and just renewed it for the year. Didn't get any wash about mooring... but then, we're not on a mooring!

We were "self insured" for many years, and only took out this coverage because it has become difficult to use either a marina or a slipway here in Oz without at least third party (liability in Yank talk) coverage. A PITA for sure...

Cheers,

Jim
Jim try anchorage marine underwriting at north sydney, I have just changed to them and found the price much more reasonable than NRMA or club marine. Oh and they know and understand boats as that is thier business, not homes etc.
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Old 04-12-2012, 16:00   #14
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

I don't really know about other places but Sydney Harbour is full of boats that never go anywhere and some look like they haven't seen an owner in years.

I can see where Naultilus is coming from. These boats would have an insurance value from when they were an owners pride and joy. If they sink (and I've see three that have with many more clearly sitting below their marks) they'll most likely be a write off, insurance will have to pay for their removal and disposal and the clean up of any environmental damage they've caused. It's going to be a huge bill.

As responsible owners who look after our boats we're going to be the ones who pay. The boats that I have seen sunk would all have given warning signs long before they went down.

I doubt if many boats sink in marinas, and if they do it's possible the marina may be asked to pay, so most are pretty careful.

With so many overvalued derelict boats sitting on moorings I'm surprised that any insurer would cover them and I can see why mine requires a survey every five years, with reports that some boats are required to have a survey more often.

Maybe some of the owners of moored boats that never move may now be motivated to get rid of them and those of us that would like to anchor in some of the lovely spots on Sydney Harbour that are now choked may get a chance
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Old 04-12-2012, 16:14   #15
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Re: Insurance cancelled for NSW & VIC

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I don't really know about other places but Sydney Harbour is full of boats that never go anywhere and some look like they haven't seen an owner in years.

I can see where Naultilus is coming from. These boats would have an insurance value from when they were an owners pride and joy. If they sink (and I've see three that have with many more clearly sitting below their marks) they'll most likely be a write off, insurance will have to pay for their removal and disposal and the clean up of any environmental damage they've caused. It's going to be a huge bill.

As responsible owners who look after our boats we're going to be the ones who pay. The boats that I have seen sunk would all have given warning signs long before they went down.

I doubt if many boats sink in marinas, and if they do it's possible the marina may be asked to pay, so most are pretty careful.

With so many overvalued derelict boats sitting on moorings I'm surprised that any insurer would cover them and I can see why mine requires a survey every five years, with reports that some boats are required to have a survey more often.

Maybe some of the owners of moored boats that never move may now be motivated to get rid of them and those of us that would like to anchor in some of the lovely spots on Sydney Harbour that are now choked may get a chance
+1 You are so right about the barnacle farms, they are everywhere around Sydney. FWIW many insurance companies have market value policies not agreed value policies so those derelect boats may not be worth what thier owners think. But those of who still love our boats end up paying because of the neglect.
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