How Tough Is the Owner/Charter Business?

[S.I.T.S.]

New to the board but diving in head first.

How realistic is this?

I want to get a 40 to 45 foot cat. I have 200k and if need be I could finance some of the purchase but I don't want a big monthly payment. I have seen enough used boats that appear to be in good to great shape that would meet my requirements. Set it up for diving, 10k for compressor and tank ranks, 6 max.
Liveaboard and charter one week on and one week off. Most likely I would do this out of southern Fl. and make trips to the Bahamas. All inlcusive for 5k a week. Two couples on board is $1250 a week per person. That is a cheap dive vacation with an added adventure of sailing. I am close to getting my instructor certification for scuba, so I also have potential for additional income on that side.

With that said,

A. Is 10k a month income enough to cover expenses and still show a profit? (slip,fuel,insurance,maintenance)?

B. How competitive is this market?

Thanks for your feedback

Bruce

[S.I.T.S.]

Wow, 41 views and no replies. I hope it isn't because you're all rolling on the ground laughing.... :-)

Bruce

[GordMay]

Independent Chartering is a very difficult & competitive business.
Even the large outfits only achieve roughly 30% -to- 60% max. "occupancy" rates.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Short answer = no idea!

Long answer, did a Google using - sailing dive florida bahamas - and got 393,000 hits.......these were on the first page:-

http://http://www.diveandsailcharters.com/Charters.htm

Catamaran charters 56 foot catamaran - 7 day Florida - Bahamas all inclusive sailing vacations.

Pricing is very interesting - as they do not say how much! - not even a guide price - strictly POA, which makes me suspect it is either a cut throat business or price fixing is going on amongst a limited amount of suppliers. and I doubt the latter.

Their have been a couple of threads on Chartering, which threw up some intersting stuff, albeit of course older threads are never exactly what "you" are after ...but interesting nonetheless.


FWIW (given my limited time onboard paid for boats / dive charter) one of the keys is being able to play the role of "Mein Host" (and "Hostess") very well.......me? I am not really a people person , and certainly not 24/7

[Zanshin]

It is a tough business. There are a number of owner/captains out there doing the same thing and you are competing against the "big boy" industries such as Sunsail/Moorings. The difficult part will be finding a reliable method of getting your boat booked. In order to do that, you will have to "give away" increasingly larger chunks of what the customer pays. Discounts to brokers & agents so that they will book your services and advertise for you, etc. Then you will have to pay a pretty significant chunk of cash for insurance that covers chartering vs. private use. The season isn't 52 weeks long, so you won't get anywhere close 26 weeks of chartering.

I don't mean to say that it cannot or should not be done, but that it isn't as easy or profitable as it would at first seem to be.

[S.I.T.S.]

Although you guys bring up valid points, I for one only need to charter 12 weeks out of the year to show a profit. I think. I am a scuba diver and would market to scuba divers with the sailing twist. I have seen how the brokers market and there is no way I would go through a broker. That is why you don't see any prices, because every boat is going to be different. Creating a website and finding ways to point prospective customers to it is not a difficult task. I will continue my research and hopefully can pull it off. Appreciate the comments. Any divers out there?

Bruce

[joburnet]

Originally Posted by S.I.T.S.

Creating a website and finding ways to point prospective customers to it is not a difficult task.

Bruce

Unless you are a website designer you are dead wrong. I know nothing about chartering or boats but I have owned a business for the last 5 years and had great success with internet advertising.

The first thing you are going to want is a very high quality website and you can expect to pay $3-5k for a good fully featured site. The next thing you are going to have to do is advertise that site. You can advertise on specific websites for a monthly fee as well as pay per click through google and other search engines. You can expect to pay a minimum of $500 per month in advertising fee's but you will get a lot of bang for your buck if set up correctly. The nice thing is that once this is set up it does not take much effort to run but....

who is going to answer your phone and email? Customers expect a lot. Many people that call expect their call to be answered or else they will move on to the next company. Those that leave a message expect it to be returned quickly, one day at the most and it's the same with emails.

No matter how you generate business you will not be able to handle customers yourself if you're out on a trip for a week at a time. I don't want to discourage you but this is something that you must find an answer to before you jump in to it. Good luck!

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by joburnet

who is going to answer your phone and email? Customers expect a lot. Many people that call expect their call to be answered or else they will move on to the next company. Those that leave a message expect it to be returned quickly, one day at the most and it's the same with emails.

!

Very true. I get a lot of stuff for my boat online but I usually call the 800 number. If I get a machine I move on to the next vendor. Same with a local purchase, line up the phone numbers and scratch the ones that only have an answering machine.

[ssullivan]

Bruce,

I'm a charter captain. I've done the weekly charters and MAN are they hard. No time off and I mean NONE while the guests are on board. Like sleep? You won't get any.

Like eating when you're hungry? Forget that too.

Like to get up early or late or have anything about eating and sleeping you like? Forget it.

Are you getting a boat for serenity and privacy? You won't have any.

Are you prepared to pull apart a head and get elbow-deep in other people's poo?

Ready to have people go crazy and try to beat you up on your own boat? Ready to have people attempt to steal your boat?

Think long and hard before you jump into it without any backup plan.

It's a hard HARD job. Being a dive instructor on the boat you are running as captain is also nearly impossible. Why? Who is your lookout? How will people be safe when the captain of the vessel is below doing dive lessons?

There is a lot to think about. The more you sort out now, the less you'll hate it. lol

I'm signing up for a new season of chartering... I'm crazy.... ha ha But I need the money. At least I've had enough bad experiences doing it to figure out what you need to do to keep safe/sane finally.

Good luck...

[Ex-Calif]

S.I.T.S - I am glad Sully chimed in. Go do a search on some of his prior posts. He knows from which he speaks regards chartering and raises good points.

My external observations are this is not a casual - treat everyone as if they are "guests" and we all chill out, it will be fun and I can offset my boat costs. Depending on the atmosphere you create, you are the slave, servant and head complaint hearer and the customer is always right. The service has to be great, the accomodations have to be great and the food has to be great.

I have done dive charters as a customer - Paying $2000+ for 4-days for each of me and my spouse (after negotiating), I expect things to run flawlessly, and when I am done diving, beach combing and having fun, I expect the Captain to serve 5-star food and beer, not self serve from the fridge...

I didn't want to respond earlier because 99% of the folks here are following their dreams - If charter dive captain is your dream, go for it.

It is a very tough business to get going and sustain is my guess. There are three 50+ foot dive charter sailboats for sail around here if you want to get a jump start...

[David M]

I think much of the business is related to references. I know I would not charter a boat without references. I have read of so many chartering horror stories now that I don't think one can trust the advertising. Word of mouth is much more accurate. I may sound a little skeptical but I think I am also being realistic.

It is also one of those dream jobs that most everyone wants to do which tends to drive down prices therefore making it difficult to cover your expenses and to give you a decent living wage.

What I am getting at is I think it will take a lot of time and effort to break into the business and to get those positive references. It can be done though and I would not want to discourage anyone from trying.

[ssullivan]

David, the funny part is when I read this, I was thinking about the *guests* needing to provide references! ha ha



That's how I see it.

I don't have trouble filling the seats on my charters (good marketing). I have trouble keeping the crazies off the boat.

And... Dan's expectations are definitely right in line with all guests' expectations. They can understand a small flub up here and there, but that's it.

Oh, and another thing they expect: Infinite water. They'll take showers like you've never seen, emptying your fresh water tank in 2 days on a week long charter, even when they think they are conserving. I think that is my biggest problem, aside from lack of sleep. People are very wasteful, even when they think they are conserving. I had people go through 120gals in 2 days taking "short" showers where they though they were conserving water. They just don't "get it" when it comes to living on a boat, because they don't typically have one and have never lived on one. Plus, our socieity is very wasteful, so you can't really blame them, but that's another thread! ha ha

Oh yeah... one more thing to think about: The boat.

If you are doing a dive boat (rather than a sailboat with a couple aboard), you will have to learn the ins and outs of getting your captain's license and how to run an "inspected vessel" (dealing with the USCG's inspection program).

I say all the negative so you can be aware of it, not to convince you otherwise. By alll means, proceed... but these are the pitfalls.

Originally Posted by David M

I think much of the business is related to references. I know I would not charter a boat without references. I have read of so many chartering horror stories now that I don't think one can trust the advertising. Word of mouth is much more accurate. I may sound a little skeptical but I think I am also being realistic.

It is also one of those dream jobs that most everyone wants to do which tends to drive down prices therefore making it difficult to cover your expenses and to give you a decent living wage.

What I am getting at is I think it will take a lot of time and effort to break into the business and to get those positive references. It can be done though and I would not want to discourage anyone from trying.

[David M]

Originally Posted by ssullivan

David, the funny part is when I read this, I was thinking about the *guests* needing to provide references! ha ha



That's how I see it.

I don't have trouble filling the seats on my charters (good marketing). I have trouble keeping the crazies off the boat.

And... Dan's expectations are definitely right in line with all guests' expectations. They can understand a small flub up here and there, but that's it.

Oh, and another thing they expect: Infinite water. They'll take showers like you've never seen, emptying your fresh water tank in 2 days on a week long charter, even when they think they are conserving. I think that is my biggest problem, aside from lack of sleep. People are very wasteful, even when they think they are conserving. I had people go through 120gals in 2 days taking "short" showers where they though they were conserving water. They just don't "get it" when it comes to living on a boat, because they don't typically have one and have never lived on one. Plus, our socieity is very wasteful, so you can't really blame them, but that's another thread! ha ha

Oh yeah... one more thing to think about: The boat.

If you are doing a dive boat (rather than a sailboat with a couple aboard), you will have to learn the ins and outs of getting your captain's license and how to run an "inspected vessel" (dealing with the USCG's inspection program).

I say all the negative so you can be aware of it, not to convince you otherwise. By alll means, proceed... but these are the pitfalls.

Sean,
Screen the passengers...that is pretty funny! I wish I could do that at work!

David

[sundowner]

I think you're right about getting by with a OUPV (Operator of an Uninspected Passenger Vessel) if you only have 6 paying passengers or less on board and the vessel is under 100 tons. USCG License Requirements - OUPV six pack - Master Mate 25/50 100 ton

Than would cover him in Florida. Not sure about the Bahamas though. Anyone else know?

[sundowner]

Bruce,
I also applaud you and have been thinking along similiar lines and trying to go through a lot of the same "due diligence" that you are so I can go go in with my eyes wide open as well. Have you checked in to the cost of chartering insurance yet on a cat that size? What sort of prices are you running into? I just live over the mountains from you in Park City, UT, so we should get together and talk some time. Off the subject... a couple of my friends who live in Denver are driving down to meet up at Zions this weekend to do some canyoneering and camping. If you want to go you could hitch a ride with them on Thursday.