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Old 21-04-2016, 17:07   #1
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How Much to Offer?

Hi,
We are shopping for boat in the Caribbean.

I see a range of prices for brokered listed boats, and frequently ads stating "price reduced, owner wants it sold!"

Is there a standard/expected offer deduction, say 10%? For instance, is a boat listed at $220,000 actually expected to sell for that, or for $200k, or...

I do plan to involve a broker to do the hard details on price, but what has been your experience buying or selling?

How does this math change when a boat is listed privately, listed by owner, or for sail from a charter company? What does the impending hurricane season do to price?

Thanks for your wisdom!
-Andy
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Old 21-04-2016, 17:53   #2
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Re: How Much to Offer?

Not certain how wise this advice is but I have gone in with an initial offer of about 60% of asking unless she is in pristine condition then go as high as 75-80% of asking. You don't know how serious some sellers are and that is a good way to find out. Good luck in your search... remember, it is a buyers market at the moment. Phil
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Old 21-04-2016, 17:53   #3
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Re: How Much to Offer?

Depends how badly you want it. If it's a rare boat at a great price with lots of interested parties, you can offer more than asking price.

If it's the same as 20 other average boats on the market, maybe go a bit lower.

If it's over priced but you want to take a shot at it, offer much lower.

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Old 21-04-2016, 18:21   #4
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Re: How Much to Offer?

Get your broker to provide you with a list of actual selling prices of the same model from soldboats.com.

Yacht World requires all all brokers to report actual selling prices and special conditions when a boat is sold. They then re-package this info and post it on soldboats.com

This data will show you the original asking price, the actual selling price and how long it took to sell among other info. It will give you an idea of where to start.
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Old 21-04-2016, 18:53   #5
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Re: How Much to Offer?

A sailing friend of ours (now thru his nth boat) explained to me once that there is no such thing as an offer too low, in the anglo-saxon world.

I walked into a broker in le Marin and offered a low ball price for a posh cat. The French broker gave me a good laugh.

I think if you make a too low offer, it will simply get rejected. That's that. Nobody will eat alive for trying.

b.
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Old 21-04-2016, 18:55   #6
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Re: How Much to Offer?

This is a recurring question.

There is NO right answer.

Each individual "deal" is just that.

The most useful advice that I've read in answers to this question is: The value of any deal is what the seller and buyer agree to.

Where YOU start is up to YOU. There are NO rules.
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Old 21-04-2016, 21:00   #7
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Re: How Much to Offer?

10% probably wouldn't get your nose broken.
When I looked at my current boat, I was going to offer a few thousand less based on the condition. The sellers broker suggested offering him 40% less (and did) since he knew how much the seller had paid for it 6 months earlier and was having marriage issues. I knew I never wanted to use him as a broker!
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Old 22-04-2016, 00:18   #8
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Re: How Much to Offer?

First you have to get an idea of the boats value. Not just the going rate but taking int account condition. 10% off a boat over priced by 50% will probably be accepted before the paper hits the table. 40% off a boat that has lots of issues may be paying too much.

Assuming the boat is reasonably priced, feel free to go low. Worst case is they reject your offer.
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Old 22-04-2016, 02:23   #9
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Re: How Much to Offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
A sailing friend of ours (now thru his nth boat) explained to me once that there is no such thing as an offer too low, in the anglo-saxon world.

I walked into a broker in le Marin and offered a low ball price for a posh cat. The French broker gave me a good laugh.

I think if you make a too low offer, it will simply get rejected. That's that. Nobody will eat alive for trying.

b.
Ja.. that might be the case in America/UK perhaps like you say. My own experience for example with Germans is.. that if you go below 20% of asking price they will be so offended they won't even reply to your email and flat out refuse to deal any further with you.. .(you clown!) .. even when they write "O.B.O" on the price tag.

Even in cases where the boat is clearly overpriced and well.. it is also a buyers market over here .. but alas.. people attach feelings to boats and the work and money they have put into.

My personal opinion is.. don't systematically lowball just for the sake of it. Look at the boat on sale carefully. Does it sound overpriced.. if ja.. ok fein.. lowball. Does it sound about right and it fits your budget.. ok.. then no need to even bring up the price issue until you have seen the boat, etc.

People who find nice boats posted for a fair price and still want to low ball to see if they can get a good deal at the expense of someone elses misfortune.. ja.. sorry dude.. bad karma right there.

Somebody said to me.. the fair price for a boat is where the buyer things "I paid just a little too much perhaps" and the seller things "I could have gotten just a bit more for it maybe". Then the price is right
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Old 22-04-2016, 03:00   #10
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Re: How Much to Offer?

Search, there been some interesting discussion about this in the past. I guess, it's like anything else - depends on how badly seller needs to sell, how long boat is on the market and how badly you want it (and if you want it badly there's a good chance you'll overpay A LOT ).
The boat is very specific product - it needs to be used and maintained or it will be trashed very quickly. This also applies to cars, houses etc, but boats suffer much much more, no matter, in water or on hard. And boat sucks money out of the owner even when not in use unless it's tiny motor boat.
So if someone NEEDS to sell boat, he will never behave like someone described above - not replying to offers etc. I'm not sure what are all these sellers thinking, with their boats on the market for a few (I've seen as much as seven!!!) years? They must be waiting till their boats turn into the gold somehow.
My opinion - don't be afraid to offer low. Just think - how much you'd pay to be completely happy with purchase even if some overlooked problems will be discovered later? Couple guys above suggested to offer 60% of listed price for nice (not overpriced!) boat - I probably would try that. But do Internet research first. You don't need broker for that. With little computer skills you can find out how long boat is on the market, most likely you will find more information about boat etc. If it's just listed newer boat, already low priced (compared to similar boats), there's good chance that it will sell quickly. But I've seen ridiculous cases. Cat Catana 582 was on the market for long time, then it was greatly reduced to $490K (which is quite low for this boat), it seemed that seller had to sell it very quickly and boat most likely was sold for $400K +/-. It even had some upgrades and brand new 120hp engines! And few months later SAME boat appeared for sale at different location at 1.1 million with no ANY additional upgrades whatsoever. Now that's total and complete BS. So watch out for a-holes like this, who flipping boats, just like everywhere else - in car business, houses etc. And remember - there always will be more and more nicer and newer boats coming. Just like with cars and anything else.
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Old 22-04-2016, 04:38   #11
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Re: How Much to Offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
Ja.. that might be the case in America/UK perhaps like you say. My own experience for example with Germans is.. that if you go below 20% of asking price they will be so offended they won't even reply to your email and flat out refuse to deal any further with you.. .(you clown!) .. even when they write "O.B.O" on the price tag.

Noting ventured...nothing gained. If they refuse or call you a clown, thank them and move on.

People who find nice boats posted for a fair price and still want to low ball to see if they can get a good deal at the expense of someone elses misfortune.. ja.. sorry dude.. bad karma right there.

Bad karma is no one puts in an offer and the guy in the misfortunate situation is stuck. If he has offers, he has options.
Unless you have a very specific model you absolutely must have, what's the harm? It's not like you are forcing them to accept your offer.
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Old 22-04-2016, 04:54   #12
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Re: How Much to Offer?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Unless you have a very specific model you absolutely must have, what's the harm? It's not like you are forcing them to accept your offer.
Reminds me of the night markets in Indonesia and Malaysia. Vendor names a price. Customer offers 40%. Usually settle on 55-60%. Of course everyone knows the game.

Of course in Bali they make sure to let all the other vendors know if you are a sucker or not by placing your purchase in a colour coded bag. Good thing this isn't done with boats.
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Old 22-04-2016, 05:40   #13
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Re: How Much to Offer?

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Reminds me of the night markets in Indonesia and Malaysia. Vendor names a price. Customer offers 40%. Usually settle on 55-60%. Of course everyone knows the game.

Of course in Bali they make sure to let all the other vendors know if you are a sucker or not by placing your purchase in a colour coded bag. Good thing this isn't done with boats.
Exactly, they will say you are taking food out of their babies mouth, you will say how don't really want it, they will tell you it's top quality, you will point out the poor stitching, etc...etc... If you treat it as a game it's fun. If you are dealing with a big ticket item it can still be fun but you must in mind what you are willing to pay. If you are negotiating over a new scarf that could go for $10 and you pay $12, it's no big deal. Same thing with a $100k boat and it could easily be $20k extra you pay.

On thinking about it, the idea that this is an Anglo-Saxon approach really only applies to big ticket items. The Anglo-Saxon world has largely gone fixed price except for big ticket items (cars, houses, boats...)

As far as color coded bags...I'm sure the brokers would do the same thing if you are buying 4-5 boat in a day.
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Old 22-04-2016, 06:04   #14
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Re: How Much to Offer?

The 60% figure sounds about right to me, but be prepared to go up to 90%. It all depends on the boat really and how much you want it. And how useful the broker is.

Case in point:

Boat #1
Oday 34. First ever boat. SSR Registered, UK owner, had been left in FL for 2 years. From memory they wanted $27k, I offered $23k, offer was accepted and I had my first boat.

Boat #2
Project steel boat. They wanted 24k, I offered 12k, they countered 15k, I offered 13.5k, they accepted.

Boat #3
Custom catamaran, asking 60k, offered 40k, then 45k (both rejected), will offer 50k next. I don't want to go above that 50k figure but to refit a similar cat to a similar spec, I'd be in for about 70k, so the boat's worth it. A previous broker (who I've griped about extensively due to his diabolical practices) had the boat listed for 95k (!!!) with zero success, the new / current broker had it up for 60k with a tonne of viewings.

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Old 22-04-2016, 10:22   #15
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Re: How Much to Offer?

NADA is the place to start to get actual sales prices. Some boats you can not dicker on like Pacific Seacraft. Others you can low ball down to 10% of asking like Columbia's. Remember, once a boat is over 30 you will find financing difficult to get and insurance real limited; so adjust your offer accordingly.

Wood boats are strange. A lot of wealthy folks are recently buying classic woodies at full asking prices. Plastic is de classe' nowadays. Concrete boats have virtually no buyers. The steel boat market(assuming your dealing with under 80 feet) has been avoided for quite some time. Good luck. Find out how long the boat has been on the market. If over five years, be prepared for them to accept your first offer.
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