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Old 23-12-2014, 18:06   #31
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
...

Any consultant you pay will be biased towards the approach HE prefers. I really wonder about someone who is planning to buy and move aboard but doesn't know what they want (at least in rough terms). Do you have any boating experience?

The money might be better spent going to one of the big boat shows (annapolis or miami) and in addition to getting on dozens of boats also go to the cruising seminars, so you get a wide range of views. Worst case, you get a nice trip out of the deal.

You really need to do a lot of research and not try to just hand it off to a so called expert.
I agree. Give the same sailing program to Bob Perry and to Marc Lombard and you will surely will have very different boats for the same program.

I agree regarding going to a boat show, but then go to the biggest of them all, Dusseldorf in January. Off course, it will not be enough but at least it will give the OP a good idea of the available options.

Then I would say, increasing the sail experience (it cannot be much otherwise he would know the type of boat he wanted) and charter a lot, with different types of sailboats, the ones that have an interior with the size and interior style adapted to his living.

We do not even know if he wants a daysailer or a 100ft yacht
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Old 23-12-2014, 19:24   #32
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

If you're looking for extreme shoal draft that will really narrow the options. We went on the 46RK a couple of weeks ago & it was very impressive. It's a pretty new design so it will be hard to get opinions on it based upon actual sailing or ownership experience. I'd try to get ahold of someone who owns one. Maybe someone at Seaward can refer you. In the sailing video they say it's doing 8.5 knots with it blowing less than 15 with the board all the way up so that sounds pretty good. With the twin Yanmars it'll be a pretty cool canal boat & the inside helm station is a huge plus. If you did sail one of these around the world I'll bet you'd be the first. I wonder if Seaward would help you out for the publicity.
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Old 23-12-2014, 20:03   #33
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

I've owned sailboats for 50 years but used Bob Perry ten years ago on a purchase where I felt over my head. As a marine architect of many custom boats, he's spent a career of picking the right boat for a client. It worked for me.

And when I told the broker that Bob was helping, the whole sales process became a lot more respectful.

I expected Bob to be proud of his designs - and he is - but that didn't get in the way at all. He charges a flat $500.

Robert H. Perry Yacht Designers, Inc.
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Old 23-12-2014, 21:27   #34
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

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Originally Posted by Latchdaddy;1705551....

Expect to start in the Med, then sail up to Baltic. Would like to do cruise rivers/canals of Europe/UK. After this experience, we'd be ready to do the round the world. Head to Carib, then the Horn? yikes, recover in Fiji and probably sell the boat in Oz.


Looking at Southerly49 and Seaward46RK with the most interest at the moment. All in Budget $500k
.
A boat for doing the rivers and channels of Europe will not be the more indicated to do a circumnavigation. For that the best is a motorboat, kind of a barge. An American that circumnavigated on a Hunter 49 is doing that now after have refitting a traditional Dutch motor barge. If you want to do that, buy a proper used boat and sell it after you have done that.

Regarding the Southerly 49 is a great boat and certainly an offshore boat but if you want to circumnavigate the best boat to do that is what the Europeans call a voyage boat. Not all are aluminium boats but most are: OVNI, Allures, Boreal, Garcia. Not being made of Aluminium you have the RM and the new Comet 46 EX. I believe Nordship can also be a an option if low draft is not a priority.
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Old 23-12-2014, 22:19   #35
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

Maybe I missed it, but if he cannot decide
between a monohull and a multihull... there's
probably a dearth of multihulls that are
narrow enough to fit in a lock.
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Old 23-12-2014, 23:17   #36
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

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Well since you asked.......

I am still at the mono vs. multihull stage! But for beauty and sailing pleasure, the monohull is where my heart is at.....the moment.

The plan/dream is to purchase used (>2008) a bluewater experienced boat that can take me around the world for 4-5 years. I'll be 55 or so when I start and will need it single-handed rigged as the Admiral will not be with me full-time.

Expect to start in the Med, then sail up to Baltic. Would like to do cruise rivers/canals of Europe/UK. After this experience, we'd be ready to do the round the world. Head to Carib, then the Horn? yikes, recover in Fiji and probably sell the boat in Oz.


Looking at Southerly49 and Seaward46RK with the most interest at the moment. All in Budget $500k

Thanks for asking.
Latchdaddy,
You mentioned the canals of Europe, which reminded me of a couple of American sailors who are doing an extraordinary voyage (for Americans) via the canals and rivers of Eastern Europe to Turkey. The have made long trips for years.

You can read about their travels on their blog. I spent some time months ago viewing their photos when the were in the early stages of their trip on the rivers of Germany.

Trawler for Sale

The link is for their blog when they had their boat for sale, but they changed their mind and continued to travel and cruise.
Their boat is a 46 foot Diesel Duck!

I admire their travel spirit and goals.
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Old 24-12-2014, 07:55   #37
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

Sounds like an arranged marriage. Here's your new wife!
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Old 24-12-2014, 08:03   #38
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

I totally get why you would want one boat to do the whole trip. Much simpler than buying & selling 2 boats. If you want a different boat for the canals you could more easily charter.


Steady Hand brings up an interesting point. Have you considered a trawler (LRC)? There are several brands that can handle this kind of trip. Nordhavn, Diesel Duck & Krogen spring to mind. However, I would not recommend a catamaran as the beam on a blue water cat could be a problem in some of the canals.


All that being said I am really intrigued by the Seaward. It has a combination of 4 things going for it that no other boat has, that I'm aware of. It's a sailboat, it has twin diesels, it has an inside helm station & it has a lifting keel for extreme shoal draft. The price was in the mid 4's at the boat show so it's an expensive high quality build but it appears to be within your budget. If you are serious about considering this boat you need to sail it, preferably in some really bad weather and/or rough seas. The worse the better. And crawl all over it, inside & out.


No matter what boat you decide to buy one you need to have it surveyed by someone who really knows what they are doing. New boats can have problems too.
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Old 24-12-2014, 08:13   #39
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

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Highly recommend you contact John Neil. Mahina Expeditions conducts sailing and navigation training and expeditions in the South Pacific and offers offshore sailing seminars He does purchase consulting for a fixed fee and knows everything afloat.
I second this suggestion: I have attended their lectures and tutorials. There is probably no better or more capable service available for this. Their rate is not high and as I understand, you only pay if you buy a boat they sourced for you.

Also, get their short publication on STORM TACTICS. Everyone who cruises should have one.
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Old 24-12-2014, 10:25   #40
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
So far you've gotten good advice all around.


One thing I'd like to add is that cast iron keels are generally a maintenance headache, long term. Ferrous metals and salt water don't belong together. They only exist to reduce build cost or to accommodate a complicated mechanical lifting keel. I'd never own one again.
I think that might be true with a bolt-on keel but not an encapsulated one.

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
I've owned sailboats for 50 years but used Bob Perry ten years ago on a purchase where I felt over my head. As a marine architect of many custom boats, he's spent a career of picking the right boat for a client. It worked for me.

And when I told the broker that Bob was helping, the whole sales process became a lot more respectful.

I expected Bob to be proud of his designs - and he is - but that didn't get in the way at all. He charges a flat $500.

Robert H. Perry Yacht Designers, Inc.
Good advice here. For the OP, if you are unsure and fairly new to boats, it might be a good way to go. Besides, I doubt anyone, Perry or otherwise would just recommend one vessel. Even if you do not choose their recommendation, you will be on a narrower path as to what you might be looking for.
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Old 24-12-2014, 11:26   #41
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

You are more likely to be happy with your choice if you can decide yourself based on your own knowledge, experience, and preferences rather than rely on the opinions of another. Don't have much of these to rely on? Then go get them. Before you buy your boat go sailing. Go sailing a lot. Go out on every kind of boat you can in all kinds of conditions. It isn't hard. Most skippers need crew, they will welcome you. Then there are racing spots. You will get a lot of exposure in a year crewing for someone. The objective is to get lots of sea miles.

All around the world there are boats for sale which are the sad end to someone's dreams; they dreamed of buying a boat and going sailing, read about it, studied it, attended workshops, but never did much sailing. Then they buy the boat and after a few months find they don't like the boat, or more often, don't actually like sailing that much, and the boat is for sale.

Develop your love for the sea before you select your boat.
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Old 26-12-2014, 11:03   #42
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

Wow, you all have certainly impressed with the power of the Internet. Thanks to All for the useful comments.

I will elaborate more to address several valid concerns;
• The consultant will help with decision support – not make the decision.
• Most projects fail or incur significant costs due to poor planning. Consultants, training, time on the water are all required inputs to a successful plan.
• A consultant with the right experience will challenge my assumptions, offer alternatives and provide in-depth technical knowledge I simply do not possess.
• This is a 3-yr plan that started this summer. I went to a week school in Sardinia, (Centro Velico Caprera), took ASA 101, have 102-105 planned, may get Charter Captain License, go on 2 charters per year and two boat shows. Will participate in rallies.I’ve captained in the San Juan Is. (40’ Hunter) and had small boat excursions over +20yrs. I have never been offshore or sailed continuously over 24hrs.
• I don’t plan to buy a new boat as I prefer someone else to take the depreciation and work out the faults. I’d pay a premium for a boat sailed by experienced crew.

Advice I picked up that resonates with me is:
• Approaching surveyors with my ‘final’ list for local knowledge - thanks bsurvey
• Using the forum here to help me narrow it down – thanks Bill B ☺
• Review Bob Perry, John Neil, etc
• Plan to go to the Dusseldorf show!
• Starting with a cheaper/smaller boat initially and buying the ‘final’ boat later. But going thru the boat buying process twice is not attractive
• I will generate the narrow list of boats that the consultant helps refine the pros/cons.
• CarlF – good points I will keep in mind.
• The adventure boats are intriguing – aluminum. I have to understand better the concerns, but the high latitude sailing is attractive. The Allure 45 has been on my radar.

Special thanks to SteadyHand, rgscpat, Hobiehobie,wingsail

I've got some new questions now to go research .... this is fun!
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Old 26-12-2014, 12:58   #43
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

Can anyone share how the dussledorf show compares to say the miami show for size? In particular for cruising boats.

I looked on line and they claim to be the largest but I'm sure miami has made the same claim in the past also (there are probably qualifiers so that both can legally make the claim)
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Old 26-12-2014, 14:52   #44
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

Düsseldorf is a nice place, have been there several times.

Aren't 'Southerly49 and Seaward46RK' a bit big for single handing?

What about a 'Sirius 35 DS' or the new '40 DS' (will be on display in Düsseldorf iirc)? The 35 had a great review (http://www.va-yachtdesign.de/Yachting_Monthly.pdf). Such a deck salon yacht likely provides some 'catamaran feeling' while still being a, sorry, real boat ;-)

Or, with Aluminium, what about a Bestevaer or Hutting yacht?
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Old 27-12-2014, 07:13   #45
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Re: Hiring a consultant to help choose The Boat

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Can anyone share how the dussledorf show compares to say the miami show for size? In particular for cruising boats.

I looked on line and they claim to be the largest but I'm sure miami has made the same claim in the past also (there are probably qualifiers so that both can legally make the claim)
I never been at the Miami boat show but I had saw statistics and the big difference is while at the Miami boat show the sail part is just a small one on Dusseldorf it is almost half of it. That reflects the difference in boat markets where on Europe the sail market is incomparably bigger. On Dusseldorf you are going to see many boats that are not imported to the states, some that you never heard about probably

Miami would be better for sure in what regards American sail brands, that except Hunter(sometimes one boat), Corsair and Jboats are not on Dusseldorf, but they are very few when compared with the number of European ones.

Regarding this year on Dusseldorf they list 192 sailing boat stands on the show. It is more than a month to go, so some can be added yet. Here you have them:

boot 2015 - Sailing Boats & Yachts
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