European VAT on '83-and-Older Vessels?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

nonsense, Returned goods Relief, which is the proper name for what you are talking about is by conventional available for three years, and is easily extendable alomost indefinity, once there is a valid reason, the exporter MUST be the re-importer ie ownership cannot be changed while outside the EU, and the boat cant be substantially changed or "improved" and there is no "excemption certificate", before you export , ie sail away, you can fill out a ATA carnet and have it stamped this is all it takes.



the BS continues, by law VAT on "new means of transport" is paid in the country of "destination". for an EU citizen this normally means their home country. You "may" be able to convince say the German VAT people that you live or keep the boat in the Azores or that you have a "ecomonic presence" there. Or you may not. if not you will pay VAT again in your home country.

BTW by EU law VAT cannot be below 15% except for items that were negioated by that countries accesion treaty into the EU, usually things like food, books etc have special low rates NOT BOATS. Madeira has a special VAT rate approx 30% below portugals, MADERIA now has a 14% VAT rate.

The Canaries is not within the VAT area of the EU hence VAT does apply ( where did you get 10%), There is a local tax IGIC of 4.5 % and this has nothing to do with residency. if you leave you boat in the canarys you pay no further taxes (unless you have spainish tax residency) but if you move the boat to the EU proper you will have to pay VAT immediately.


more mis-information. You are required to obtain CE certification ON IMPORT. (ie when the goods are placed in the EU market for the first time, and the act of importation is such a placement), it applies to all boats IRRESPECTIVE of age. There is a concession that if you build the boat yourself you do not need CE certification as long as you keep it for 5 years. Note that build it yourself means exactly that, you cant contract out the hull or have professionals build parts of it. if so they must CE cert the bit they do. Note that CE certification is not primarily about safety, more about a consistent and documented build quality system. the importer remains liable forever for CE liability and penalties, selling the boat does not pass on the liability



absolute nonsense, firstly zero vat rated on residential "ships" is purely a UK and Ireland issue as a result of their accession treaty. The UK customs and excise did loose a case some time ago, but each case will be dealt with on its merits, citeria are applied very very tightly and the boat must have no element of "pleasure" use associated with it. Its not an automatic entitlement.



the OP is an EU citizen , temporary importation rules DO NOT apply to EU citizens(or more correctly EU tax residents) irrespective of the "FLAG" of the vessel.Customs takes the beneficial owner of the vessel into account not its meaningless flag. TI for non EU tax residents is 18 months extendable to 24 with further extensions a function of local customs regs ( see bonding). remember that non EU citizens or those not on long term work or study visas cannot stay in the EU area ( schlengen area) for more then 90 days in any 180 ie 90 days in the whole of the EU collectively excluding the UK & Ireland. The boat canstay for 18 months you can only stay for 90 days ( as a general rule).


certainly not with your knowledge!!.

My apoligies.... the things I said were a laymans translation of information I recieved from a variety of 'official sources' that I conacted in 05 while in the UK and 06 in the Azores when I was bringing a boat across on behalf of an owner... the Canaries was actually quoted as an import tax(still a tax) and the Madiera case was quoted by an official in the Azores.
I suppose from the above info the only conclusion that can be reached is this is a minefield of mixed information with often misleading info from officials who dont really know it all themselves.... but we, as the general public can tend to take it as verbatim.... the jargon dosnt help much either...lol
Whatever the case.... so far my past actions have resulted in no ill effects for anyone.... seems llike more by luck than judgement and at least I'm dragging out info for others with with my "BS"....
Thanks GoBoat.... keep it up mate.... please post a guide for us 'laymen'

[boatman61]

Quote; nonsense, Returned goods Relief, which is the proper name for what you are talking about is by conventional available for three years, and is easily extendable alomost indefinity, once there is a valid reason, the exporter MUST be the re-importer ie ownership cannot be changed while outside the EU, and the boat cant be substantially changed or "improved" and there is no "excemption certificate", before you export , ie sail away, you can fill out a ATA carnet and have it stamped this is all it takes.


This means that a boat I bought in Dec 2000 in St Martin... French Built and owned and in the Carribean for 18 mths.... and assured by the broker in Marigot, St Martin as being inside a two year 'Overseas time allowance' and not VAT liable was in fact liable for VAT when I got back to the UK..... **** I've been a criminal for 10yrs and did not know it.....
But then as we know ignorance is no excuse.....

[goboatingnow]

yes VAT was and is due on that boat ,sorry, there is no such 2 year rule.

ps boatman forgive my BS comments ,its just that so much mis-information is put onto forums about this subject , that it presents a simple subject as being complex.

[boatman61]

Xpet.... Sorry mate seems I'm guilty of mis-information supplied by a Broker in the FWI.... maybe he was desperate for the commision.... it was 2 weeks before Christmas after all.....
So check out the posts by Goboat.... he seems pretty knowledgable at is apparently "in the Trade"....
Hope you resolve the problem in your case... Happy Sailing mate
Phil...

[cornish 2]

Hi all, Very good Forum site.
I'm planning on heading out to Turkey to look at a 48 foot British built boat(89). Tax hasn't been paid. Has anyone out there ever filled out the paperwork as suggested by goboatingnow. I'll be prepared to fill out a lot of forms to save 20K. Another question, is VAT payable on all lengths of yachts?.

Thankyou in advance for any help and advice.

Rich

[goboatingnow]

If you intend to bring the yacht into a EU port and you are a EU tax resident then VAT will have to paid at that port. It can't be paid in turkey. Yes VAT is due on all sizes of boats. In fact VAT is due on virtually everything you import. If you are not a EU tax resident then you can avail of the 18 month temporary import relief from VAT. No specific paperwork is needed for this

[James S]

Welcome to the forum Cornish 2

[Dolphin460]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Xpets... OK been there done that.... VAT is applicable on ANY boat bought abroad and imported to Europe if the intention is to keep it there permanently.
This applies to all foreign built boats.
If the boat was built in an EU State and has been in 'foreign waters' for more than two years it once again falls liable for VAT.... unless it has a valid exemption certificate issued by the Customs of its Home Country.
The wise thing to do is pay the VAT in the Azores where it is 15%... lower than most other places... Madeira is 6% and the Canaries 10% but you have to prove residency to qualify.
A further new law that was brought in a couple of years back is if it is your intention to re-sell the boat once imported it is a criminal offense to sell it without a valid CE certificate... this can cost at least 10,000 to 15,000 pounds in the UK as the boat has to be lifted and surveyed by a certified CE surveyor and all findings and recommendations MUST be complied with... in other words she has to meets the same regs as a 2010 production boat.
If its your intention to keep the boat no problem... till you decide to sell..
If you want to avoid VAT payment be a live aboard with no property ashore... if its your home your exempt.
Alternatively all foreign vessels have 18mths in European waters before becoming liable for VAT, flag her somewhere like Anguilla before sailing to Europe... go for a sail before the time due and spend a couple of months in a non EU country... perfect if your based in the Med.... winter in Tunisia... job done.
The old days of buying cheap abroad and selling high in Europe are over... they wised up.... but as I said above there are still loop holes if OWNING the boat is your intention....
Hope your a bit wiser...
Phil

I am very interested in your comment about "live aboard" and be VAT (IVA) exempt. Could you please post the law and or where you acquired this information. Thank you.