Delivery Crew Pays?

[Delancey]

Owning a boat and living the cruising dream doesn't come cheap. If it did, everyone would be doing it. I see a lot of threads about the cost of cruising but I don't think I have seen any that included a discussion of delivery costs.

When a boat needs to be delivered, it is almost exclusively at the discretion of the owner. That is to say, the cruising lifestyle is a personal choice and therefor any cost associated with it are at the exclusive discretion of the owner and the consequences of this discretion cannot in anyway be considered a hardship.

Despite this fact I have encountered any number of crew wanted threads posted asking potential crew to pay expenses including transportation and food. I have even seen a few that include "other expenses" which are not defined.

While I recognize any delivery crew experience is worth it's weight in gold for those interested in developing their skills, I don't agree with charging crew to do for me what I consider a favor. I consider delivery expenses to be a consequence of my choice to live the cruising lifestyle and accept them wholly.

Others may see things differently and they will likely have many different reasons why. Hence the poll.

Cheers!

[SailFastTri]

Can you add a "none of the above" response? How about "It depends on the crew's experience and relationship to the owner"?


I'm no legal expert, but if someone pays you or you ask for even partial payment beyond the crews personal expenses, aren't you then engaged in charter? That would certainly change your legal and insurance status.

[Delancey]

Sorry, I cannot change. Just click on "Give It Up Delancey" that should suffice. Maybe that could be the response for "crew pays is same as charter, people who do it are scammers"

Otherwise, feel free to state your case. It's a broad topic with a lot of variables.

[skipmac]

I go with what SFT said. Depends on the situation.

Inexperienced owner needing experienced crew for a straight here to there trip I think would warrant at the minimum paying the crew member's expenses.

Experienced owner taking on green crew (who might want to get gain some sailing experience) to have another hand to stand watch on an easy cruise taking a lot of time to enjoy the trip then at minimum the crew should pay their own expenses.

If you plan to charge crew then it should be a holiday for the crew or the owner/captain should have some kind of instructor certification and be able to give the crew something official for their money.

Then there are all the situations in between where it's even more gray.

[nimblemotors]

Seems to me there is way too much 'depends' to make any general statements about this. It is totally a supply and demand issue in my view.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I go with what SFT said. Depends on the situation.

Inexperienced owner needing experienced crew for a straight here to there trip I think would warrant at the minimum paying the crew member's expenses.

Experienced owner taking on green crew (who might want to get gain some sailing experience) to have another hand to stand watch on an easy cruise taking a lot of time to enjoy the trip then at minimum the crew should pay their own expenses.

If you plan to charge crew then it should be a holiday for the crew or the owner/captain should have some kind of instructor certification and be able to give the crew something official for their money.

Then there are all the situations in between where it's even more gray.

I know there is gray area, but I think for the purpose for the poll either of the first two should suffice for most. As in you either think it's worth paying for or you don't. If you think it's not worth paying for sort of suggests you think people should pay you.

[sailorboy1]

The question is about "delivery" crew, in which case I would feel that is a paid position and only experienced people need apply.

On the other hand there is just "crew", that's a different story I feel falls into a crew covers their costs.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

Seems to me there is way too much 'depends' to make any general statements about this. It is totally a supply and demand issue in my view.

Again, despite the variables involved, you either think it's worth paying for or not. Some do, some don't. Yes, gray area. BUT, and a big BUT, some will try to get for free what others consider a cost. So who are you?

[sailorboy1]

I wasn't talking "company" crew. Don't know where/how you got that from my post.

[Delancey]

Maybe this is a dumb poll? If someone wants to explain to me the reasons why I should pay them to do them a favor and help them move their boat I am all ears.

Please include in that explanation why I should pay to do it on your schedule and to your destination as well as a detailed accounting of what my money is paying for. If it does not include champagne and lobster I will likely pass.

I will likely pass because I DON"T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING unlike you who HAVE TO MOVE YOUR BOAT to satisfy your cruising dream.

[ryon]

I'll have to go with "none of the above". There's not nearly enough answers here for why we do the things that we do!

I'll go anywhere the airlines and buses will take me -- MAYBE -- it all depends. Sure the expenses are important, but I won't be doing it for pay. Look at my profile here, maybe we can go sailing!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The question is about "delivery" crew, in which case I would feel that is a paid position and only experienced people need apply.

On the other hand there is just "crew", that's a different story I feel falls into a crew covers their costs.

I think this puts it well. "Delivery" crew would imply to me getting a boat moved on a schedule as quickly as safely feasible from one point to another for the owner, with our without the owner on board.

This I think is quite different from adding an extra hand for a passage. For example a couple crossing the Atlantic that would like a third hand to help stand watches. For some this could be a great holiday and would be happy to pay or contribute to their personal expenses. For some obviously this would be seen as work and they would want to be paid.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Maybe this is a dumb poll? If someone wants to explain to me the reasons why I should pay them to do them a favor and help them move their boat I am all ears.

Please include in that explanation why I should pay to do it on your schedule and to your destination as well as a detailed accounting of what my money is paying for. If it does not include champagne and lobster I will likely pass.

I will likely pass because I DON"T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING unlike you who HAVE TO MOVE YOUR BOAT to satisfy your cruising dream.

Put this way then no, it wouldn't make sense at all for you to pay someone. But that is you. I have seen many posts on this and other forums from new or relatively inexperienced sailors that would think it the trip of a lifetime to crew with an experience sailor on an ocean passage, even if that meant paying their own expenses.

But to pay for the privilege. I thought I made that clear in my previous post. Only if the owner/captain is a licensed instructor who can then provide the paying crew with an ASA or similar certification OR the trip is more of a charter holiday for the crew who would travel in luxury, be served meals, etc. I think most (no not all) of these deals where some boat owner charges people to crew on their boat are, well I shouldn't express that opinion on the forum.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Maybe this is a dumb poll? If someone wants to explain to me the reasons why I should pay them to do them a favor and help them move their boat I am all ears.

Please include in that explanation why I should pay to do it on your schedule and to your destination as well as a detailed accounting of what my money is paying for. If it does not include champagne and lobster I will likely pass.

I will likely pass because I DON"T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING unlike you who HAVE TO MOVE YOUR BOAT to satisfy your cruising dream.

This seems to have struck a nerve with you. So what happened? Someone try to con you into a bad job or you just read an ad for one of these pay to crew on a boat deals? I have to say, most of those do bother me a bit but not enough to start a poll on the issue.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by skipmac

This seems to have struck a nerve with you. So what happened? Someone try to con you into a bad job or you just read an ad for one of these pay to crew on a boat deals? I have to say, most of those do bother me a bit but not enough to start a poll on the issue.

Ran across a few too many pay-to-crew adds I guess. Rubs me the wrong way. Sailing is a dying sport. Not like they ever used to teach it in public schools to begin with.

Nobody who charges novices to do them a favor is doing the sport any favors. They are only making the entry fee that much higher. If someone wants to be selfish and self-serving, fine. Just don't pretend to be altruistic, which some seem to do.

I used to deliveries to earn a paycheck. Hard work mostly. Sure I had a good time. Doesn't mean it wasn't work.

Hate to see so many newbies come here looking to develop their skills and be met with cheapskates looking for others to finance their dreams. Problem being that newbies don't know any better. Otherwise, fine.

Seems like cheapskates should pay for their dream themselves same as everyone else rather than trying to get one up on the other guy. If they can't afford their own dream, well then enabling them isn't good for the sport either. Too many dreamerz as it is. That's just me.