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Old 28-06-2014, 14:30   #1
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Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

Hi im looking to buy a 28 foot full keeled boat and was wondering what your opinions were on devices and things needed to go long distances. the boat im looking at has vhf/ais/gps. it doesnt have a watermaker/solar/refridgeration. should i look for something that has most of these things or get/install them myself? also it has no tiller pilot. ive heard the 300$ automatic tiller pilots dont work well. Thanks
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:03   #2
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

Liquid Metal,

Look at making a windvane for self steering: the name of the book is "Self Steering for Small Boats", by Letcher

How long are "long distances?" Water Tankage capacity and food storage space are critical and compete for tool storage space. For water you'll need a minimum of 2.5 l/day in hot areas, and that's with washing your body and your dishes in sea water. A dietary site will give you ideas for nutrition. Beans and rice are great, but they require a lot of water. You will want some form of water catchment to augment your supply. You should consider some form of water purification for when you take it on from suspect sources.

You will want a dodger unless the boat has a pilot house.

I'm hoping you understand that this going cruising isn't all a lark: it's about fixing your boat when something has broken at sea; coping with an unexpected construction failure; walking long distances in hot weather, on dirt roads carrying heavy items; fixing your boat in places where you don't speak the language. The sea is an environment in which humans cannot survive long without a support system, unlike land isolation, where there are roads, creeks with fresh water, and so forth. Bad weather can destroy your boat and thus kill you.

Some people will say to you, "oh, wonderful, go for it," but I am thinking from your questions so far that perhaps you have no idea what you're getting into. I've been cruising over 25 yrs., now, mostly foreign, and the life is not all mai tais in the sunset. And yes, we love it.

Another CF member, newt, has started a thread here called "New Sailor's Guide to Ocean Work". I recommend you take a look at it.
Ann
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:14   #3
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

I am mainly looking at setting up the boat so i can live anywhere relatively self sustainably. long distances over open ocean would mostly be avoided as i would slowly be seeing every sight. you're right, i definitely am inexperienced, but i know that this is what i want to do. do you use your solar panels for water catchment? any advice of any of your ideas is great thanks.
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:26   #4
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

".....it doesnt have a watermaker/solar/refrigeration."
*If a boat has a working refrig that can save you a lot of money. Provided it's not a real old one that operates on R12 refrigerant.
* Finding a boat with a newer working watermaker is probably not real likely anyway.
* Solar can cost money too so keep that in mind.
Maybe best to look at the cost of your potential boats and add the cost of adding what you want. also , labor to install things is hugely expensive so you need to be able to do it yourself. Are you so inclined?
If this is your first "long range cruiser" than I would keep it simple until you have cruised it some and then decide what is a priority.
Watermaker- nice to have but takes room and lots of money. Requires battery charging unless engine driven.
Refrig- nice to have but requires LOTS of battery charging.
Charging- Solar is nice but you will need an apparatus to mount them, a regulator etc. On a small boat this can get to be pretty cumbersome... but do able. Consider just getting a hi amp alternator and good batteries and try that first?

Regarding what boat to buy: Things that might cost a lot if boat doesn't have good ones or not at all and WAG $:
Sails- Main and headsail: $6000?
Engine- $10000
Blister bottom- $5000-10000
Rudder problems $1000-$2000
Bolt on Keel: $1500-2000
Standing rigging/chainplates. $1000 and up
Dingy /motor. $2500
Bimini and Dodger. $3000 and up

So... if you got a great boat with nothing on it, the above might cost you $35,000 if you install it!

So keep some numbers in mind while looking at particular boats. These $ are just a wild guess based on your 28 ft boat. There is marginal value in these things if you find a boat with them recently replaced. But the owner who does them pays a lot!
Two years ago I looked at an older Islander 30 with new rigging, new main and furling headsail, new furler, recent 3 cyl yanmar. New main cover. Could have got it for $5-6k! it needed a blister job though. That guy lost a lot of money.
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:29   #5
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

i have 2 boats specifically that im looking at. could i email you or something about it?
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:30   #6
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

and thanks very much ann and cheechako
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:32   #7
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

What kind of primary and secondary ground tackle does it have? If, for example, it's a Danforth clone, 5 feet of chain, and 3/8" three-strand nylon rode, you're gonna need to upgrade.
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:38   #8
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidMetal View Post
i have 2 boats specifically that im looking at. could i email you or something about it?
Feel free to contact me if you want. Just one man's opinion on things. But it does help to bounce things around.
It's so very tempting to look for bargain boats, and not pay attention to actual cost ready to cruise. You might pay $10k for a solid 28 footer and spend $35k and two years getting it ready for long distance cruising.
Being realistic, for $45k what could you get that's more ready?
of course it's not that simple either!
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Old 28-06-2014, 15:38   #9
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

1977 Westsail 28 sailboat for sale in Florida 1981 C E Ryder USA Southern Cross 28 sailboat for sale in Louisiana
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Old 28-06-2014, 20:49   #10
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

Both boats look loved. That's good. The fact that the Southern Cross offers the survey is encouraging. The SC will perform better than the Westsail. But you should see both and feel them, and think about what you have to do.

I personally would not want any alcohol stove, but the Origos have their enthusiasts.

Good luck with it. For what you've said you want to do, either would work; but the Westsail will be slower; however it has a bigger holding tank. You gotta weigh what's important to you.

Ann
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Old 29-06-2014, 08:05   #11
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
...... The SC will perform better than the Westsail. But you should see both and feel them, and think about what you have to do. ....
Now if you wanted a deal on a small performance boat
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ma-125177.html
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Old 29-06-2014, 08:24   #12
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

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Originally Posted by LiquidMetal View Post
SNIP

also it has no tiller pilot. ive heard the 300$ automatic tiller pilots dont work well. Thanks
Back in the day no one had auto pilots. A well designed boat could be 'balanced' so that it would sail a course even if sometimes you had to lash the tiller.

One of the most important requirements for any boat I would buy is the ability to sail in a straight line with little input from the helm.

Another thing to remember is that an auto pilot is often the biggest power hog on the boat, and the harder it is to balance the boat the more power it will require.

While a wind vane does not require power it will wear out, or simply fail, if the boat is not well balanced and requires frequent large inputs to keep on course.
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Old 29-06-2014, 10:52   #13
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

The Westsail has about 3.3 more feet in waterline, so It may only be slower to weather.. if that. From what I've read the 28 was designed from the ground up and has some improvements over the 32 as far as sailing capability. It's all relative though I suppose... neither is a rocket ship!
The narrow beam of the Southern Cross will need an owner who like sailing well heeled. I read that the Southern Cross is a fully cored hull... can anyone confirm this?
A better sailing sturdy boat than both of these in this range would be the Yankee 30... if you could find an example as well taken care of as both of these.
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Old 29-06-2014, 11:47   #14
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidMetal View Post
Hi im looking to buy a 28 foot full keeled boat and was wondering what your opinions were on devices and things needed to go long distances. the boat im looking at has vhf/ais/gps. it doesnt have a watermaker/solar/refridgeration. should i look for something that has most of these things or get/install them myself? also it has no tiller pilot. ive heard the 300$ automatic tiller pilots dont work well. Thanks

Good advice. As you can imagine, yours is not the first of these questions, and you can do a lot more research by reading earlier posts on this subject, not hard to find even without a search, just look at the topics under this heading.

Although the following link is not for long range overseas traveling, the comments on the issues and systems that makes for successful cruising has some well described reasons for what works and doesn't. Adjust to suit your needs.

1500 Mile Interim Refit Report & 3596 Update
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Old 29-06-2014, 11:55   #15
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Re: Cost of needed items/ long distance cruising

Let's not forget, if a boat is +20 years old and you want to safely put sea miles on it, it must [must] get all new standing rigging. Quite possibly before all other priorities. And that will be an easy five grand out of pocket, even for a 28'er.

The rudder and rudderstock, the keelbolts, many structural parts need to be examined very carefully and conservatively, before you can really trust them. And as the boat goes from 20 to 40 years...all the more likely they will need surprisingly expensive work.

Which is how the two years and $35k in prep can easily happen.
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