Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-08-2013, 10:51   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 99
Images: 1
coast guard documentation

my boat has an old elapsed coast guard documentation - should i try to get this updated ?....
__________________

__________________
kim r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 10:58   #2
Registered User
 
Wench'sCaptain's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: On the Boat
Boat: Hunter Helsen 470
Posts: 132
Re: coast guard documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by kim r View Post
my boat has an old elapsed coast guard documentation - should i try to get this updated ?....
Just an opinion. If you plan on taking the boat outside of the US. I believe it should be documented.
__________________

__________________
Wench'sCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:06   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: coast guard documentation

If you mean it's not in your name... by all means!... the boat may have two owners! Is it state registered now?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:08   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 99
Images: 1
Re: coast guard documentation

yes it is registered in my name in my state - but it has the numbers carved in the bulk head / cabin and i have the old document from the coast guard that is dated i think 1989
__________________
kim r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:09   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 99
Images: 1
Re: coast guard documentation

i thought so - it looks like it might be difficult - tracking down the old owner - two owners ago
__________________
kim r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:28   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: coast guard documentation

well, as mentioned, if you are not sailing out of country, probably no need to get it documented.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:33   #7
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: coast guard documentation

The vessel documentation number stays with the vessel for its life.

For instance, our last boat had been registered with the State when we bought it, because the prior owner was not a US Citizen and was not allowed to document the vessel in the USA. Prior to him, the boat had been documented. When we purchased the boat we re-documented the boat it using the original documentation number.

Now the question is do you need to document your vessel?

Many mortgage companies require documentation, especially if you are cruising outside the US. It makes it easier for them to repossess the vessel, especially in foreign countries.

Also when you are cruising outside the US, it is much easier to deal with Immigration/Customs if your vessel is documented, because they are used to seeing this paperwork, instead of a State Vessel Registration Card and will cause questions or problems. Some countries don't care, some will be butts about it.

Vessel Documentation, by itself does not relieve you from taxes or any State Laws concerning registration or taxes. For instance, Florida, requires its residents to also register their boats with DMV, even if they are USCG Documented. And before people start... There are exceptions to this rule!

My advice is: If the vessel is staying in your state and doesn't have a mortgage, then the only reason to document it would be if it is cheaper than State Registration.
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:36   #8
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: coast guard documentation

You can also go to NOAA web page and run the Vessel Documentation Number and see when the last time it was registered and to whom.

They do this by name as well as documentation number.

Here is the link:

Office of Science and Technology
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 07:36   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: coast guard documentation

If you want to meet the letter of the law, you need to update it in your name. Technically, you aren't supposed to take a CGR boat out on the water without it beign valid. I believe you can get it canceled.

If you are just cruising locally, there is s good chance nothing will ever come of it but it could (ie: most people speed in thier cars but nothing says you won't get a ticket.)
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 08:03   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: coast guard documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
If you want to meet the letter of the law, you need to update it in your name. Technically, you aren't supposed to take a CGR boat out on the water without it beign valid. I believe you can get it canceled.

If you are just cruising locally, there is s good chance nothing will ever come of it but it could (ie: most people speed in thier cars but nothing says you won't get a ticket.)
USCG documentation is the equivalent to a title in most states, not registration. Some states require a USCG documented vessel to be registered with the state and some do not. None can require a USCG documented vessel be titled in the state. That is specifically prohibited. A state may not assign or require the display of state based numbering systems to the hull. They can require that you display a sticker showing that you have registered the boat (primarily to show that they've been paid). As a Florida resident I have both a documented vessel and a nice green sticker displayed to show that the state has been paid. I'm not quite sure what I'm paying for as I have a cruising boat that never leaves the water at a public facility. The state uses registration fees to fund boat ramps and other water access facilities for small boat, but I've never quite figured out what I get from the state for my fees, but I digress.
I assume that the OP has a state title as well as a registration they are not on the water legally. I don't know any state that will register a boat without a title or documentation. whoops I take that back. When I lived in NC boats under 10 feet did not have to be titled, but did require registration if you put a motor on them, hence my dinghy had a registration but no title, so some states may do this for smaller boat.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 08:17   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: coast guard documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
USCG documentation is the equivalent to a title in most states, not registration. Some states require a USCG documented vessel to be registered with the state and some do not. None can require a USCG documented vessel be titled in the state. That is specifically prohibited. A state may not assign or require the display of state based numbering systems to the hull. They can require that you display a sticker showing that you have registered the boat (primarily to show that they've been paid). As a Florida resident I have both a documented vessel and a nice green sticker displayed to show that the state has been paid. I'm not quite sure what I'm paying for as I have a cruising boat that never leaves the water at a public facility. The state uses registration fees to fund boat ramps and other water access facilities for small boat, but I've never quite figured out what I get from the state for my fees, but I digress.
I assume that the OP has a state title as well as a registration they are not on the water legally. I don't know any state that will register a boat without a title or documentation. whoops I take that back. When I lived in NC boats under 10 feet did not have to be titled, but did require registration if you put a motor on them, hence my dinghy had a registration but no title, so some states may do this for smaller boat.
From the back of the "certificate of documentaiton": This certificate is not valid for operation of the vessel until the vessel is marked with the name, officla number, and hailing port as shown on the certificate. The original certificate must be kep aboard the vessel at all times when in operation and must be presented upon the demand of federal, state or local officials for law enforcement purposes."

As it's pretty hard to present a valid certificate if it's a few years old (they are provided on an annual basis) and in someone elses name, by definition, you can't really meet the requirements. If you just hang out locally, the saving grace is there is a good chance the local officials will be fine with a state registration but nothing says they can't ask of the CGR if you rub them the wrong way.

Yeah, you still have to pay state registration most places but that is a seperate issue.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 10:03   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: coast guard documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
From the back of the "certificate of documentaiton": This certificate is not valid for operation of the vessel until the vessel is marked with the name, officla number, and hailing port as shown on the certificate. The original certificate must be kep aboard the vessel at all times when in operation and must be presented upon the demand of federal, state or local officials for law enforcement purposes."

As it's pretty hard to present a valid certificate if it's a few years old (they are provided on an annual basis) and in someone elses name, by definition, you can't really meet the requirements. If you just hang out locally, the saving grace is there is a good chance the local officials will be fine with a state registration but nothing says they can't ask of the CGR if you rub them the wrong way.

Yeah, you still have to pay state registration most places but that is a seperate issue.
As the OP stated the Certificate of documentation was from two owners ago. It had to be changed from "federally document" to "state titled" or the OP would not have been able to register it at the state level. To register a boat one has to be able to prove ownership, which either a state title or a federal documentation certificate provides. If is state titled you are not required to carry the title on board, only the registration certificate. Federal documentation does require you to keep it on board.

The fact that a previous owner had it documented 24 years ago has no effect on its current status. When I bought my boat I had the option of applying for a new documenttion certificate in my name or taking the bill of sale to the state and having a state level title issued. The fact that the boat has federal documentation numbers only mattered to the feds, which meant that because I already had them I didn't need to add them. If I had gone the state route I would have been issued a state registration number which I would have had to apply to my bow. Since I went the federal route I just had to add the new name and hailing port. I originally bought my boat in Florida, but was a resident of NC. As My dinghy was under 10 feet I did not have it titled in NC. Six years later I moved to Florida and the state issued me a new title (after the appropriate donation of funds) upon showing them a copy of the original bill of sale and the old Florida title that had been signed over to me. I also had to produce a registration history in NC, to prove I had not just been dodging Fl taxes. They also reissued the original FL hull numbers that were on the boat when I bought it.

Kim R, do you have a title issued from your home state?
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 10:19   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: coast guard documentation

I've seen the Secretary of State (DMV) mess up and this is not standard stuff for many of the offices, so it's a fairly big assumption.

Probably the biggest issue would be when you go to sell. If the paperwork is conflicting, it could slow up the sale or on the off chance it's a stolen boat that was resold with a state registration (unlikely but a big issue if it happened?).

They have a search function where you can plug in your boats info and it will give you the status. Presumably if it was canceled, it will state that.

Office of Science and Technology
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 10:30   #14
Registered User
 
Crimea Cruiser's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Crimea
Boat: Colin Archer 36', steel
Posts: 358
Re: coast guard documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
I've seen the Secretary of State (DMV) mess up and this is not standard stuff for many of the offices, so it's a fairly big assumption.

Probably the biggest issue would be when you go to sell. If the paperwork is conflicting, it could slow up the sale or on the off chance it's a stolen boat that was resold with a state registration (unlikely but a big issue if it happened?).

They have a search function where you can plug in your boats info and it will give you the status. Presumably if it was canceled, it will state that.

Office of Science and Technology
Unless I am mistaken, in every state you need either a title or a certificate of documentation to get a state registration. So unlikely that boat was registered, if not legal title or document in effect when at DMV.

But I am curious how long Kim R has owned Andiamo because I have seen posted in recent months for sale on several sites.
__________________
If it floats it's a boat, or perhaps it's f#cal matter!
Crimea Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 10:44   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: coast guard documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
If you want to meet the letter of the law, you need to update it in your name. Technically, you aren't supposed to take a CGR boat out on the water without it beign valid. I believe you can get it canceled.

If you are just cruising locally, there is s good chance nothing will ever come of it but it could (ie: most people speed in thier cars but nothing says you won't get a ticket.)
Once it expired from not being redone (yearly now) isnt it not in effect at that point? is this the same no longer documented?
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
documentation, men

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.