Buying Wisdom Needed

[Bash]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

And yet you seem quite intent on ignoring, or arguing with, any answer that you get. You appear to me (and I admit that I could be wrong, but this is how you appear) like one of those people who asks a question, but has already made up his mind and only wants to hear answers that fit the answer you have already decided on.

If you have made up your mind, then why ask the question? If you are actually seeking advice, then why not listen to the advice that you're getting?

I think you should just do whatever it is that you have already decided that you are going to do.

It may be the the OP has unwittingly settled on a single designer. The boat he currently owns, the Clipper Marine 26, and the boat he desired in post #1, the Dreadnaught 32, are both William Crealock designs. Unfortunately, these two boats are among the worst designs ever drawn by Crealock's pen. The Clipper Marine 26 is a swing-keel trailerboat, noted for a flexible hull and a vulnerable swing keel. The Dreadnaught 32 is noted for internal ballast made of concrete mixed with steel, a design that rusts first and crumbles later.

Neither boat sails well.

While Crealock certainly had his share of success stories--the Westsail 42, the Dana 24 and the Pacific Seacraft 37 immediately come to mind--he will not go down in sailing annuls as having been particularly influential or having contributed much to cruising design. Fortunately for the OP, you can purchase many Crealock-designed boats on the used market for rock-bottom prices if you don't care how they perform on the water.

[micah719]

Ease up...he's hunting for info and is no fool. Just because he doesn't instantly adopt whatever is said to him doesn't mean he isn't taking the advice on board.

[Sumner]

Originally Posted by Floodhound

....I have 0 experience in the arena of long term cruising that is why I am here asking you all about my future boat....

It would help some if you explained how you see you and your family using the boat over say the next year or so and then over a longer period of time.

Will it be used more as a live-aboard first in a marina or on a mooring in the area where you live now? If needed how/where will you be making a living? Will you be staying in the States? Would it be used on the west coast where you are now, the east coast, Bahamas, Caribbean, Mexico, South America.

Have you and your family spent any time living on a boat? Have you seen if you could possibly rent one to live on in a marina to see how you like that? I couldn't see raising kids on a boat myself, but people do and are quite successful at doing that but it does take a special type of family to make that work.

We bought a boat that I think Ruth as a non swimmer will feel more comfortable on vs. our smaller boat. It isn't noted for being a great sailboat going to weather and needs some wind, but we have the motor when needed and are never on a fixed schedule and just like to move and then sit on anchor some secluded place. It is shallow draft which is important for were we mostly will do most of our trips so is a good boat for you. I think that if you can really define your needs that you will find a good boat for you,

Sum

[Cheechako]

If you want to sail with no motor, get a good sailor, fin keel, spade rudder. Maybe an ex racer of sorts. Plenty of them around. It will be a pleasure to sail, sail fast in light air etc.

[Sumner]

Originally Posted by Sumner

.. It is shallow draft which is important for were we mostly will do most of our trips so is a good boat for you. ... Sum

Screwed up the last part of the sentence above and can't get back to edit it. It should read:

'It is shallow draft which is important for where we mostly will do most of our trips so is a good boat for us (not you).

Sum

[Floodhound]

skipmac
Thanks for the book suggestion ill see if I can get a copy. And no I don't mind 2nd party advice this is why I am here reading every word. I can see that there are more variables at stake than I initially though before asking on this forum. Thanks for showing me this.


denverd0n
I have lived a long life and its came to be my nature from trial and error to question everyone and everything. People have good intentions and naturally people also have bad intentions and both are done with or without an agenda. I belief that I must weed through these intentions and draw my own conclusion. Respectfully, I am not arguing or ignoring anyone, as you put it. I am simply trying to cut through all the wealth of information and find what works for me and my budget. I will do whatever it is that I need to do but cant I make friends during this process? In fact I have taken the advice of this forum and opted out of the Dreadnought. Reading further I am looking into a UNION CUTTER 36.

Bash
You nailed it! and thanks. I did not know that Crealock was involved in the Dreadnought too. Yes the clipper has its issues but it was a great sailboat for me to learn on and cheap too.

micah719
Thanks for the support.

everyone,
I am still looking and reading vigorously everything I can as my time line is shrinking. In case anyone has forgotten my wife was laid off and I need a boat within 4 months. Not the plan but its the cards we were dealt with. My budget is ~45K. Now I know its not enough but I have to make it work and I feel that it just might be possible.

On a lighter note:
What can I expect during the buying process? How long is normal? What hidden fee's can I expect to undercover?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Floodhound

On a lighter note:
What can I expect during the buying process? How long is normal? What hidden fee's can I expect to undercover?

Standard procedure schedule a haulout and survey for the boat. Usually called a short haul at the boat yard since the boat only needs to be lifted out of the water long enough for the surveyor to inspect the hull, prop, etc and does not require setting the boat in the yard with blocking and stands.

That cost can vary a lot depending on locations. I bought my boat in NY and paid $1000 for a short haul which included pressure wash the bottom. I paid less than half that in N FL including blocking and bracing in the work yard.

Surveyor usually charges by the foot. That price I think is more consistent around the country. Forget what I paid for that but might have been $10/ft.

This will be required if you get insurance or financing. Even if not financing it would be foolish to buy a boat without hauling and inspecting. If you keep the boat in a marina at all many require a least liability insurance in case you bash one of your neighbors.

Most states will charge you sales tax on the boat, typically around 6%. And no, they don't care if you live in another state, if you buy the boat in their state and don't immediately leave you will pay the sales tax. There are some exceptions but this is covered in great and glorious detail in at least half a dozen previous threads.,

Most states will also require you to register in their state. That is usually $100 or less but more in some states.

That should cover the main costs in the purchase but once you have the boat the fun has just begun.

[Floodhound]

Skip,


The fun truly begins after purchase. Hell my small clipper needed a small repair that ended up costing me a small fortune and I did all the work myself. lol

So will I need a broker as a buyer and if not can I save cash by trying to contact seller directly bypassing there broker? I hope that question won't bring me hate mail but it don't hurt to ask, right.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Floodhound

Skip,


The fun truly begins after purchase. Hell my small clipper needed a small repair that ended up costing me a small fortune and I did all the work myself. lol

So will I need a broker as a buyer and if not can I save cash by trying to contact seller directly bypassing there broker? I hope that question won't bring me hate mail but it don't hurt to ask, right.

Seems like you already know about the care and feeding of a boat.

Regarding brokers, I used to be one. You do not have to use a broker, you can certainly buy directly from an owner. When I bought my current boat I bought directly from the owner but would have bought from a broker if I had found the right boat. If you do shop with a broker I would not consider it ethical to try to buy directly from the owner of a boat that the broker showed you.

My experience in the business, buying from a broker did not cost the buyer extra. First the broker's commission is taken from the sellers net. You might think the seller would increase their selling price to allow for the commission but that was not usually the case.

Also a lot of the boats that I saw for sale by owner were not realistically priced. Some because the seller had an overblown idea of the value of the boat; often trying to sell it themselves after brokers told them the boat was overpriced and wouldn't list it. Then there are a lot of owners that list their boat but really don't want to sell it. Maybe the wife told them to sell the boat so they listed it at a high price to stop the argument or they are getting older and can't handle the boat anymore so list it just in case they can get a huge price for it.

I would just look for the boat I wanted no matter how it was for sale.

[Floodhound]

Skip,

There for a bit I was figuring you to be an a** hole, boy was I figuring that wrong. Why thank you kindly. The way I see it is I owe you a round of drinks.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Floodhound

Skip,

There for a bit I was figuring you to be an a** hole, boy was I figuring that wrong. Why thank you kindly. The way I see it is I owe you a round of drinks.

Well I certainly am opinionated and don't mind sharing it. If my comments seem overbearing they are meant sincerely and intended to help and maybe help someone avoid some of the mistakes I've made myself.

Besides, you shouldn't be too quick to form an opinion. You might find out I'm an a$$hole after all.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bash

Those sailors who for hundreds of years sailed without a motor were unlikely to live aboard a small craft with a woman and a three-year-old child.

Exposing yourself to "the deep" has a long and venerable history. Doing so to children is relatively recent.

Maybe an engine isn't such an awful "crutch" when a child is involved?

Not to mention many harbours, fairways and marinas where sailing into the berth isn't permitted.

Dave

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Floodhound

[
Bash
You nailed it! and thanks. I did not know that Crealock was involved in the Dreadnought too. Yes the clipper has its issues but it was a great sailboat for me to learn on and cheap too.

This being the case--that you're hopelessly Crealock--here are some designs to look into during your search:
Westsail 32
Pacific Seacraft 31
Westsail 32
Cabo Rico 31
Westsail 32
Crealock 34
Westsail 32
Columbia 36
Westsail 32

Seeing any patterns here?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Not to mention many harbours, fairways and marinas where sailing into the berth isn't permitted.

Dave

Good point. Also the ICW would not be possible at all without an engine. I have even seen opening bridges with signs prohibitting sailing through the bridge.

[smuggler]

Flood, in the absence of an engine per se, you might like to explore the use of an electric propulsion motor to use in time of need... I'm not sure what sort of battery bank you envisage, but these days, the electric engines for marine propulsion are pretty efficient.

There is a wealth of info on these systems & suspect given your "handy" ability.. you may well be able to effect a workable solution..

Go for it all...