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Old 24-10-2017, 23:26   #1
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Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

Ciao all, I'm Davi, I live in Italy, and this is my first post

I've been sailing a long time but am buying my first boat in the next few months. I have a few choices and options as regards buying/registering it, but have no idea the advantages or disadvantages, except that I'm sure there are many of both!

My situation: I am both a US and EU dual citizen, who lives in Italy. I pay taxes in the US on my work there, and pay nothing in Italy. I have my eye on a boat in France at the moment, but there are others (Super Maramu) available in the Caribbean as well. I know something about the 180 day rules for non-eu flagged boats living in the Med (in Italy, which I plan to do the first year especially, then go farther afield). My thoughts are based on US taxes, VAT or VAT savings, registery costs.... what am I missing? Also, where you flag a boat....how do you choose between states? Is there even a choice?

As you can see, I'm a bit turned around... Any insight would be tremendously appreciated!
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Old 25-10-2017, 00:21   #2
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

You are resident in the EU and if you want to sail in the EU you need to have a EU VAT paid boat.
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Old 25-10-2017, 01:47   #3
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
You are resident in the EU and if you want to sail in the EU you need to have a EU VAT paid boat.

OP doesnt seem to be a resident ? pays taxes in the US so I assume he's a US resident
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Old 25-10-2017, 02:08   #4
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

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OP doesnt seem to be a resident ? pays taxes in the US so I assume he's a US resident
He says he lives in Italy, if he spends more than 183 days a year in Italy the Italians or any other government in Europe will probably consider him as resident there.
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Old 25-10-2017, 02:22   #5
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

Other than an a cheap example in the US which seems to have had some problems, Yachtworld lists them around £200k give or take a bit. Is there much difference the one you are looking at in price or bang for buck between VAT paid and VAT free? might just be easier if you are living in Italy to buy a EU boat tax paid if the price is similar.

We moored next to the one that was for sale in Portland (UK) in August. What a fab boat, seems to have disappeared from the listings though so may have sold.

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Old 25-10-2017, 02:42   #6
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

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OP doesnt seem to be a resident ? pays taxes in the US so I assume he's a US resident
Can't make that assumption...the US taxes its citizens on worldwide income regardless of where they reside or earn the income (with some limited exclusions for income earned outside of the US and/or offsetting credits for taxes paid in other countries). It's one of the few countries that imposes taxes based on citizenship and not based on residency.
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Old 25-10-2017, 04:26   #7
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

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Can't make that assumption...the US taxes its citizens on worldwide income regardless of where they reside or earn the income

ouch.. that sucks
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Old 25-10-2017, 08:41   #8
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

As an EU citizen, regardless of where you actually reside, if you purchase a boat and bring it into the EU you WILL have to pay VAT at the point of entry. This is regardless of the flag state of the boat. Therefore if you are thinking of sailing in the Med then best to buy a boat already VAT Paid. You can then register it anywhere.

That's what we had to do when Croatia joined the EU and our non VAT paid UK flagged boat suddenly ended up in EU waters.
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Old 25-10-2017, 12:08   #9
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

I bought my boat in the BVI, thus no sales tax. I reregistered with the USCG. Home port is South Portland Maine. I was sent a notice from the state of Maine where I have lived in the past and sent them documents about the purchase in the BVI and thus tax exempt. If you keep the boat out of the states for a minimum of 6 months, I think you avoid excise tax.. ( at least in Maine and Florida to my knowledge.)
Best of luck and welcome to the group. Amel is an awesome boat. Fair winds!
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Old 26-10-2017, 03:03   #10
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

You really must pick either EU or US business. If US it must be US built and registered vessel.

Like mine.

Then you must decide on market. Day trips, over nights, or dive boat etc. Try and match boat to market. If upscale, you need private cabins and AC. If students a different market and they would ruin a luxury boat.
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Old 26-10-2017, 05:23   #11
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

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You really must pick either EU or US business. If US it must be US built and registered vessel.
??? Didn't see anywhere that the OP said he was starting a charter business.

To the OP. You talk about "registering" the boat. You should know that US terminology is not quite the same as most others. In the US you can "state" register a boat or Federally "Document" the boat. Documentation is most similar to Euro countryries "registration".
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Old 26-10-2017, 05:45   #12
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

Hey thanks all of you for the replies.... Lots of food for thought. Additional info: Yes technically I'm a resident of Italy, but I maintain that my permanent residence legally is the US (from the US standpoint). Not a charter business, just a private boat with flexibility to take in and out of EU as needed, and in a year or two head out farther afield (either liveaboarding or taking it up on the hard for winters but maybe in Mexico or other non EU/US locations and wintering back in Italy). It looks like the risks would outweigh whatever machinations I can achieve to save VAT...

Anycase, I'm visiting a prospective boat in the EU early November, so maybe the point is moot! Cross fingers...
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Old 26-10-2017, 08:24   #13
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

Hi! Davi,
Since you are both a US and EU dual citizen, and fully aware about the EU VAT, 183 days in a year, and in a year or two head out farther afield and etc.
So, I suggest you register with Langkawi International Yacht Registry (LIYR), it's tax free, no GST, no VAT and no hassle. Very fast registration and cheap.
Please contact Info.marine@rocketmail.com or +6019-7990170 for an attention of Ms.Fqa Nabila.
Good luck....
Elise.
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Old 26-10-2017, 08:56   #14
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

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Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
As an EU citizen, regardless of where you actually reside, if you purchase a boat and bring it into the EU you WILL have to pay VAT at the point of entry.

not quite correct ?


as far as I know :



as a EU citizen (with a EU passport) but with a USA residency (= home address in the US) you *can* purchase without VAT and use the boat for 18 months inside EU water without having to pay VAT




when Croatia joined it was a whole other 'thing' as suddenly the non-VAT boats had to be grandfathered into the EU VAT scheme for EU residents , non-EU residents could (and can) still get away with non-VAT boats
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Old 24-11-2017, 07:03   #15
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Re: Buying first boat, no idea where/how to register!

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Originally Posted by SYSojourner View Post
Ciao all, I'm Davi, I live in Italy, and this is my first post



I've been sailing a long time but am buying my first boat in the next few months. I have a few choices and options as regards buying/registering it, but have no idea the advantages or disadvantages, except that I'm sure there are many of both!



My situation: I am both a US and EU dual citizen, who lives in Italy. I pay taxes in the US on my work there, and pay nothing in Italy. I have my eye on a boat in France at the moment, but there are others (Super Maramu) available in the Caribbean as well. I know something about the 180 day rules for non-eu flagged boats living in the Med (in Italy, which I plan to do the first year especially, then go farther afield). My thoughts are based on US taxes, VAT or VAT savings, registery costs.... what am I missing? Also, where you flag a boat....how do you choose between states? Is there even a choice?



As you can see, I'm a bit turned around... Any insight would be tremendously appreciated!

A lot of folks weighed in on the OP's original question, but seemed to miss the part in the second paragraph where Davi says he is dual citizen of US and Italy. As such, you may register the boat in Delaware and document it with USCG for insurance purposes. Oddly enough, I registered mine in USVI and documented with USCG for purpose of "registry" listed on form CG-1258 (I did this for business purposes as tax deductible trail-vetted by the IRS) available online at www.uscg.mil.nvdc
Hope this helps Davi.


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