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Old 14-12-2015, 12:49   #1
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Buying a boat. Engine hours?

Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but did not find the answer to my question.
Over the next year I'm going to buy a 39-43ft sail boat. I'm currently looking at Beneteau Cyclades 434, SO 42i or Bavaria 42. Something mainstream and liquid enough to sell in few years. I have been looking thru boats in Greece, Croatia, Turkey and there are some good offers, but most of the boats are ex-charer.

Before doing any serious negotiations and going thru survey on the epecific boat I want to filter out the worn out junk. How many engine hours is OK for a 2007-2009 build sail boat? Any view on that?

Thank you.
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:07   #2
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

A properly maintained diesel in that size range could easily go 10,000 hours before requiring a rebuild. A poorly maintained one could be suspect at 2500 hours.
It depends ........
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:08   #3
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

This is just a general answer but condition and maintenance is more important than engine hours. An oil sample test is a pretty good indication of the internal workings. There shouldn't be a lot of smoke in the exhaust. A lttle black smoke at start up that disappears is not a bad thing. Constant blue smoke (rings or valves) is not a good sign nor is constant white (cooling water in the cylinders) smoke. A well maintained diesel can give at least 5000 hours of service and in many cases much more.

You can post a question about each engine and year to get an opinion under the Propulsioin threads. Make certain you give the manufacturer and the model number.

Good luck in your search.

kind regards,
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:13   #4
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

Oil Analysis worth the time & effort .... maybe, maybe not.
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:15   #5
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
This is just a general answer but condition and maintenance is more important than engine hours. An oil sample test is a pretty good indication of the internal workings. There shouldn't be a lot of smoke in the exhaust. A lttle black smoke at start up that disappears is not a bad thing. Constant blue smoke (rings or valves) is not a good sign nor is constant white (cooling water in the cylinders) smoke. A well maintained diesel can give at least 5000 hours of service and in many cases much more.

You can post a question about each engine and year to get an opinion under the Propulsioin threads. Make certain you give the manufacturer and the model number.

Good luck in your search.

kind regards,
Thanks, John. I'm not talking specifically about the engine condition. Imaging you are blind-buying a car. The way I see it is More engine hours = More general wear on the hull/interior/rigging/etc. Consider all other things equal, the boat with 500 hours on the engine is generally in better condition then a boat with 2500 engine hours. My question, is how many hours are OK for 7-8 years of age.
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:17   #6
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunxpert View Post
Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but did not find the answer to my question.
Over the next year I'm going to buy a 39-43ft sail boat. I'm currently looking at Beneteau Cyclades 434, SO 42i or Bavaria 42. Something mainstream and liquid enough to sell in few years. I have been looking thru boats in Greece, Croatia, Turkey and there are some good offers, but most of the boats are ex-charer.

Before doing any serious negotiations and going thru survey on the epecific boat I want to filter out the worn out junk. How many engine hours is OK for a 2007-2009 build sail boat? Any view on that?

Thank you.
===

Engine hours rarely tell the whole story regarding condition. You can find 3,000 hour (and more) engines in perfect condition and a lot of life left in them. You can also find engines with less than 1,000 hours that are totally clapped out. It all depends on how they were used and maintained. A single over heat condition at any age can result in major damage that is very difficult to repair properly.

It's better to evaluate the condition as it presently sits. Perform a cold start (engine not run in previous 24 hours). Does it start quickly and run smoothly with no exhaust smoke of any color? If so it's probably in decent shape. Look at the transom for evidence of exhaust soot. If so the engine may be showing signs of wear or improper operating conditions. Take a close look at the engine for evidence of engine repainting or replaced head gaskets. Either is a warning signal. Is there evidence of leaks or drips? If so investigate further. Take a look at the engine oil and if possible send out a sample for analysis.

If you get as far as a sea trial ensure that the engine will reach rated RPMs without vibration, leaks or exhaust smoke.
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:36   #7
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunxpert View Post
My question, is how many hours are OK for 7-8 years of age.
And you may be ignoring what's being suggested to you.

We have 3,000 hours on a 30 year old boat. And while not a cruiser like many here, I use our boat a LOT compared to many if not boats that never leave my marina and most other marinas. I expect my engine to go for longer than I will, but 5K min, 10,000 more likely.

Even for east coast sailors who take their boats out during the winter, 100 eh per year for a recreational sailboat is pretty average from everything I've read, reading and contributing to boating forums daily for over 15 years.

For ex-charter boats, those #s are, of course, off. But the argument has been presented that charter boat engines get good care, maybe better than recreational boaters, since the charter companies want to keep the boat working and charter boats use their engines more than most.

The question as you put it doesn't have an answer. Please, read what's in the answers given to you.

PS- recreational boaters = weekend warriors compared to full time cruisers, who it must be said, recreate better than most!
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:48   #8
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

Ok, guys. Thanks a lot.
Probably not worth judging a sailboat general condition based no engine hours.
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Old 14-12-2015, 14:04   #9
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

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Ok, guys. Thanks a lot.
Probably not worth judging a sailboat general condition based no engine hours.
from what i learned so far maintaining 2 diesels that low hours may be actually bad. Engines ideally should start each week. And warm up properly, and run under enough load, and shut off properly. Which is already 30 minutes. If this is not followed, bad stuff happens. 'i only use sails except to park boat' people may have this issues. Not warmed up, not shut down properly, only couple of minutes to raise sail.

When i got 1.5 year old boat, oil was black, even after change. Boat is now much cleaner. I like sailing but give motors exercise.
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Old 14-12-2015, 17:29   #10
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
But the argument has been presented that charter boat engines get good care, maybe better than recreational boaters, since the charter companies want to keep the boat working and charter boats use their engines more than most.
Judging by the ex-charters that I've surveyed I don't think I'd hold that as a universal truth. ..... Skipper with no skin in the game fires up the diesel and hammers it to the next anchorage where he instantly shuts it off , no warm up time, no cool down time. That kind of abuse wears out engines faster than normal.
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Old 14-12-2015, 17:46   #11
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

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Originally Posted by wayne.b View Post
===

Engine hours rarely tell the whole story regarding condition. You can find 3,000 hour (and more) engines in perfect condition and a lot of life left in them. You can also find engines with less than 1,000 hours that are totally clapped out.
I bought a boat that has roughly 750hrs on the engine, but it needs a lot of work. I just pulled it to replace the fuel tank under it so while I have full access to the engine, it's going to get plenty of work done during the refit.

Might be good to also see the condition of the engine room itself too to see how clean it is. Also see if the owner has any maintenance / engine logs to show what they did on it, if not, any logs to see how the engine was used could be useful.
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Old 14-12-2015, 17:48   #12
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

I'm a believer in the use it or lose it way of things. Ie, a boat that is 15 years old and has 200 hours on the engine will be compromised by neglect, whereas one with 1500 hours will have been tended to on a regular basis.

There will always be exceptions though


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Old 15-12-2015, 03:47   #13
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

The major maintenance thing is oil and oil filter change. How often that should be done? I change my oil every 10000km in my car, but hard to tell how many engine hours is that?
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Old 15-12-2015, 03:57   #14
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

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The major maintenance thing is oil and oil filter change. How often that should be done? I change my oil every 10000km in my car, but hard to tell how many engine hours is that?
yanmar is 250 hours or 1 year. Even if you have 25 hours should do it yearly. fuel and cooling pipes 500 hours or 2 years, which is trickier task but i managed it first time ok.

Low hours will not lower maintenance costs.
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Old 15-12-2015, 08:51   #15
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Re: Buying a boat. Engine hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunxpert View Post
Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but did not find the answer to my question.
Over the next year I'm going to buy a 39-43ft sail boat. I'm currently looking at Beneteau Cyclades 434, SO 42i or Bavaria 42. Something mainstream and liquid enough to sell in few years. I have been looking thru boats in Greece, Croatia, Turkey and there are some good offers, but most of the boats are ex-charer.

Before doing any serious negotiations and going thru survey on the epecific boat I want to filter out the worn out junk. How many engine hours is OK for a 2007-2009 build sail boat? Any view on that?

Thank you.
Agreeing with the above answers regarding maint and condition of actual unit, I would add:
Reasonable engine use on charter boat would be around 500h per annum.Less will be nice more will be suspect.
On another issue: if looking for a Beneteau vessel I would prefer a boat from the Oceanis range and not Cyclades that were targeted into a cheaper market and the series had short life. It is not surprising they have lower asking price.
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