Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-07-2012, 06:16   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising Florida and the Bahamas
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 94
Broker Closing Costs

Just got the final statement on our boat sale - they charged their 10% commision but also added $195 "Closing Agent Fee" for one more stab at the ribs but more importantly it seems WE are paying 6% Florida Sales Tax on the brokers commision.
Is this right?
__________________

__________________
KevinE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 06:37   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,374
Re: Broker Closing Costs

If you are registering the boat in FL and paying FL sales tax on the boat then the broker's commission will be included in the selling price of the boat.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 06:54   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising Florida and the Bahamas
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 94
Re: Broker Closing Costs

I am the seller - does the seller pay the tax on the brokers commision?
__________________
KevinE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 07:17   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,374
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Oh, you're the seller. Should have paid closer attention to your first post. It did mention sale and not purchase.

If you're a FL resident you probably know the state is picky about the sales tax and that some of the issues are not clear or not clearly understood even by businesses. I was a broker but it was over 30 years ago but I don't recall charging sales tax on our commission. Last time I dealt with sales I worked at a computer shop. There we had to charge sales tax if there were any parts or goods involved in a repair or installation but if labor only we did not. This was also a few years ago and the rules might have changed.

I also called my father-in-law who is a real estate broker and sales tax is certainly not charged on commissions there but then a home sale is not subject to sales tax where a boat is.

I am guessing here but if the buyer is keeping the boat in FL he or she will have to pay FL sales tax on the total value of the purchase price so they will be paying sales tax on the commission. If the broker is also charging you it sounds like a double tax. I think I would question this charge or at least get a second opinion from another broker.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 09:04   #5
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Kevin, if your contract provided for an additional "closing costs" or whatever, the broker is entitled to it. If it wasn't in your contract--they probably aren't.

Either way, whoever pays that fee should also be paying whatever taxes apply to that fee. If FL says there is sales tax on a broker's fee, and you paid the fee, you'd have to pay the tax.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 09:30   #6
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,577
Re: Broker Closing Costs

The buyer pays sales tax, not the seller. This sounds fishy. Here's a decent writeup on FLA boat sales and tax
http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2010/gt800006.pdf
I'd call up the FL tax folks and ask them. Let us know what happens.
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 09:35   #7
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 1,693
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Sales tax in Florida, like most other states, is charged on tangible goods - not services. If anyone paid sales tax on a service in Florida, that is a rip off.

Regardless, the buyer is responsible for all sales taxes.

As to the "closing agent fee", please let us know who the broker is. That is the most unscrupulous, greedy and unprofessional dirty trick I've ever seen and no one should ever deal with such a clown. It's not uncommon for a broker to LOWER his commission as a gesture of good will; doing the opposite and adding insult to injury by charging still more disguised as some "fee" for pure profit should not be rewarded by anyone doing business with him.
__________________
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 09:47   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post

As to the "closing agent fee", please let us know who the broker is.
Please do not name names regarding the broker. This is against forum policy because there are always two sides to a story, and because of other issues.

Thanks
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 10:01   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
Tony B's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Presently in Rogersville, Al
Boat: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin
Posts: 695
Re: Broker Closing Costs

A "Closing Agent Fee" and Florida Sales Tax are two totally different animals.
I assume that since you put "Closing Agent Fee" in parenthesis that is what the charge is for and you then 'think' it is a Florida Sales Tax on the commission which may not be true.
A closing agent fee is usually discussed ahead of time and should be listed in your original contract. Nothing is usually set in stone as to who pays this fee whether it be the buyer or seller. This closing agent fee is usually for verification of clear title and similar related items and gets the boat properly registered in the new owners name. Normally, the buyer pays such costs. I as a buyer would not feel comfortable with a closing agent working for the seller.
__________________
Mainship 36 DC - 1986
Retired and Full Time Cruising the Eastern U.S. inland Waterways
www.FreeBoatProjects.com
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 20:33   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising Florida and the Bahamas
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 94
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Broker got back to me regarding the sales tax - it was a "mistake" on the invoice (worth over $1,500). Check the paperwork!!! I was almost ready to accept the invoice for face value - good thing I double checked it.
__________________
KevinE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 20:39   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,374
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Congratulations.

So now with that extra $1,500 you're going to throw a party for all the helpful folk on the forum?
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 21:23   #12
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Broker Closing Costs

What a lucky broker. In most states it is a serious charge of fraud to incorrectly charge or collect sales tax that way. A cynic might report it and ask the tax men to audit all of his records for the past year just to start with. Which might just confirm an honest mistake. Or....
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2012, 23:12   #13
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
What a lucky broker. In most states it is a serious charge of fraud to incorrectly charge or collect sales tax that way. A cynic might report it and ask the tax men to audit all of his records for the past year just to start with. Which might just confirm an honest mistake. Or....
Or.... it might be an interesting negotiation point (be careful of blackmail though) with the broker of perhaps a, shall we say, "buyer inducement refund". You know, out of the kindness of his heart.
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2012, 06:41   #14
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 1,693
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Brokers don't make those kind of "mistakes". You would be doing everyone a favor if you reported that to the AG's Fraud investigation office in the appropriate state.
__________________
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2012, 07:25   #15
Registered User
 
The Blue Heron's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Pensacola Fl
Boat: Heritage East 40
Posts: 199
Re: Broker Closing Costs

Brokers are worse than Used Car Salesmen.. way worse
__________________

The Blue Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.