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Old 31-12-2014, 10:49   #1
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Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

I am new to the forum and would welcome advice on the topic of boat purchase. We are close to ( but not yet committed to ) buying through a dealer in Europe. I saw on one of the other threads that it was felt that prices finally achieved were around 25% less than the broker advertised prices. This surprised me as we have been able to get a reduction , but nowhere near 25%. Has anyone got direct experience of this that they could share with me ?
Thanks
Keith
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Old 31-12-2014, 11:05   #2
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

Great question.

I'd guess more like 80%, but boat brokers seem to want to keep this a secret.
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Old 31-12-2014, 11:13   #3
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

There are a ton of factors involved and every boat is different. How much of a reduction you can get will be based on the market, how long the boat has been for sale, the sellers need to sell fast, and how much fluff they padded the price with.
There also maybe better boats of the same model for sale at lower prices. The more you know about all these things, the better you will be able to get a lower price.
If you ran in and yelled "I must have this boat, it is perfect" you will not get a reduction of any note.
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Old 31-12-2014, 11:20   #4
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

If the seller is firm on the amount they will accept, it doesn't matter what the rule of thumb is.
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Old 31-12-2014, 11:28   #5
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

Over the past 5 years I've sold two boats through brokers and purchased one. (but in the U.S.)

When it comes to boats, I don't see how there can be any universal mark up. First of all, a universal or standard mark up needs to be based on a market selling price, and unlike cars, selling prices for any make and model of boat can vary considerably. Different buyers have different ideas about what their boat is worth. Some may be motivated to unload their boat for less while others may be more likely to hold onto it if they can't get the price they want.

I think rather than think a discount from the asking price, you should think more about what a particular boat is worth to you based on your budget and what you think other boats you are considering may sell for. If I were looking at two almost identical boats, I wouldn't base my offer on the asking price, I'd buy which ever one I could buy the cheapest regardless of the asking price.

I've sold boats for 5% less than my initial asking price and 25% less than my initial asking price.

In the end, a boat is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it regardless of asking price.
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Old 31-12-2014, 11:38   #6
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

Yeah... it could be 40% discount or very little. Most buyers/brokers start out dreaming they can get more and end up with a boat listed for 1-2 years and take much less in the end. If the seller hasn't been thru this process yet... it's hard to get a big discount.
You have to do some work!
If you can find past sold comparables or current low $ ones for sale to use for negotiating it helps. Make a low ball offer using a comparable that actually sold, or one that has been for sale quite a while and moved down in price over that time. It can be a same boat but not in good shape... as we all know most brokers don't even know what they are selling... much less what someone else has listed!
Let's say the seller is asking $100k. You offer $65k and explain reasons why to the broker.. The key is how much does the seller move? If he comes down to $95k you might get it at $90. If he comes down to $80k right away you have hope for a bargain. Once you accept the lowest price, you can get a further discount after survey. Use full $ yard estimates to lower the price the amount it will take to fix the survey items. What you do is accept the survey on the condition that the price is reduced that amount. That's a pretty hard nosed approach, but it is done all the time.
There's a saying in boat sales that goes "the best offer you will get is the first potential buyer".
Here's a real world example: I sold my Hans Christian 38 with a broker. All the others in the US were listed at $135k. Mine was one of the best and was the best equipped at the time. We started out at $138k. 1.5 years later we sold the boat at $90k. That's 35% less.... and I had to pay the broker after that...
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Old 31-12-2014, 11:45   #7
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

Another approach: I couldn't decide between two houses I was looking at. So I told the Broker, I'm going to offer on house A, if it's not accepted, I'm going to then offer on house B. etc etc. ...first to accept gets the sale.... that really puts the bind on a seller if the Broker passes that along! And even better if you are using two different brokers... then the Broker is trying to convince the seller to take the deal! haha
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Old 31-12-2014, 12:21   #8
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

The Rule of Thumb is that there is no rule of thumb..Another poster gave you good advice, do your homework and figure out what the boat you are interested should sell for ie maximum and the minimum. Fixed discounts off of asking prices is a fools game.
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Old 31-12-2014, 12:42   #9
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by breezydays View Post
I am new to the forum and would welcome advice on the topic of boat purchase. We are close to ( but not yet committed to ) buying through a dealer.
A "dealer" suggests a new boat and new boat prices are not near as flexible as used. Did you mean "broker" ?
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Old 31-12-2014, 14:32   #10
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
If you can find past sold comparables or current low $ ones for sale to use for negotiating it helps.
The difficulty is in finding reliable information on sold boats. I'm not sure how reliable the figures from Yachtworld are, but it would be of benefit to both buyers and sellers if this information were transparent.

As it stands, it's a selling point for brokers.
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Old 31-12-2014, 14:40   #11
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
The difficulty is in finding reliable information on sold boats. I'm not sure how reliable the figures from Yachtworld are, but it would be of benefit to both buyers and sellers if this information were transparent.

As it stands, it's a selling point for brokers.
Yachtworld requires all member brokers to post actual sales data on every boat listed. The information is posted on soldboats.com and anyone can get access for about $500/yr.

If the broker or your surveyor is a soldboats member they can pull this info for you.
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Old 31-12-2014, 14:41   #12
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

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Yachtworld requires all member brokers to post actual sales data on every boat listed. The information is posted on soldboats.com and anyone can get access for about $500/yr.

If the broker or your surveyor is a soldboats member they can pull this info for you.
That's why I said it's a selling point for brokers.
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Old 31-12-2014, 14:59   #13
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Yachtworld requires all member brokers to post actual sales data on every boat listed. The information is posted on soldboats.com and anyone can get access for about $500/yr.
The surveyor who examined my boat said not to put all your trust in the Yachtworld/Soldboats data. He said many brokers report a sales price higher than the actual, then when courting potential clients (sellers) they brag that they get higher sales prices than other brokers. He suggested talking to insurance companies (BoatUS in particular) to see what owners claim the selling prices for a particular model might be.

It is a shame that the data is not readily available. It would make the ruse above harder to pull off.
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Old 31-12-2014, 15:07   #14
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

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Originally Posted by wsmurdoch View Post
The surveyor who examined my boat said not to put all your trust in the Yachtworld/Soldboats data. He said many brokers report a sales price higher than the actual, then when courting potential clients (sellers) they brag that they get higher sales prices than other brokers. He suggested talking to insurance companies (BoatUS in particular) to see what owners claim the selling prices for a particular model might be.

It is a shame that the data is not readily available. It would make the ruse above harder to pull off.
I've been using soldboats data in my business for many years and have found the data to be pretty good. I don't doubt the occasional broker tries to bump the numbers but I have not seen it happen. Soldboats says they will ban any broker caught fudging the numbers.The numbers can on rare occasions be skewed by a trade in deal but filtering that should not be a problem for an experienced surveyor. I find that the surveyors who criticize soldboats seem to be the ones who don't do enough business to justify the outlay. That being said, I find valuations to be "Boat Valuations, a Crap Shoot".
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Old 31-12-2014, 15:16   #15
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Re: Boat Buying - Listed price vs Final Price

Back to the original post: Wouldn't using American dollars help with the European purchase? Isn't the dollar high right now?







p. s. I have made a bid on a boat in Florida and the owners are in Sweden.
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