Beware! GEICO Marine Insurance for 1997 and older boats

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Every marine insurance policy is like this.

What do you expect?

If you have a 30 year old boat, and forget to open the seawater intake, the insurance company should install a brand new diesel at no cost to you?

Why on earth would they do that?

You didn't have a new one before, why should you have a new one after?

Cripes, I'm impressed that they will give you a new one for toasting a 19 year old one.

Would you want to pay so much in insurance premiums that should you wreck something old on your old boat you would get a brand new one?

If you could afford that much in insurance premiums, surely you could just buy the new boat and enjoy it without having to wreck it?

What this results in is an increasing deductible to replace parts with new, dependant on age. Makes perfect sense to me.

Otherwise, everyone with 30 year old sails would be making insurance claims to get brand new ones at no cost.

As some one who used to work in Insurance you would be surprised certain companies had very liberal policies (but strict underwriting and fairly expensive) I have also seen riders added on that removed depreciation on engines which is entertaining. There are also special policies certain agents have with very nice riders the one that comes to mind was an agent who insured a lot of one very high end brand of boat, they included a rider they paid for a complete repaint of the whole boat for any damage longer then a few inches.

[Captndave1]

Why would anyone insure with Boat US, I priced them when I bought my 1982 boat and they were more than twice the price of anyone else. I can't believe that they would give any better service for that price. I have insured with Geico, but through Ski Safe instead of Boat US. No problems.

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by Captndave1

Why would anyone insure with Boat US, I priced them when I bought my 1982 boat and they were more than twice the price of anyone else. I can't believe that they would give any better service for that price. I have insured with Geico, but through Ski Safe instead of Boat US. No problems.

Have you made any claims on your Geico policy?

[Dave Lochner]

Originally Posted by Captndave1

Why would anyone insure with Boat US, I priced them when I bought my 1982 boat and they were more than twice the price of anyone else. I can't believe that they would give any better service for that price. I have insured with Geico, but through Ski Safe instead of Boat US. No problems.

Are you comparing apples to apples? Not all boating policies are the same. The policies sold through BoatUS/Geico are yacht policies with Agreed Hull Value and are governed by the Admiralty Laws first and state laws second. Is there coverage for fuel spills? How much?

Over the past 34 years I have had 2 claims, one small and one large with BoatUS and its various underwriters. The service was excellent. Their response to my concerns was prompt. They paid quickly and fairly.

A few years back, 2 boats in my harbor broke their moorings in a storm and sunk on a jetty. One was insured by BoatUS one by a company that is "on your side." BoatUS took charge of the salvage for their insured boat and when the other company was scratching its head about what to do, BoatUS stepped in and had the noninsured boat salvaged and dealt with the other company to get reimbursement. The boat not insured by BoatUS was owned by a friend. He said never again will he insure with a company that does not specialize in yacht insurance. He said his company was a nightmare to deal with.

Now I'm not saying that all will be hunky-dory with a GEICO policy, but my history with BoatUS suggest that I'll be better off with them than most other companies, even USAA which insures everything else I own. BTW the USAA boat policies are insured by Progressive and they are not yacht policies.

[Lepke]

It's not just boats. I had Geico and my car insurance went up 10% in 6 months for no reason. No claims, very low usage, etc. Maybe age related? Switched to Progressive and saved about $300 a year and got a discount after the 1st 6 months. Expecting another now. Same coverage as Geico.

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by Captndave1

Why would anyone insure with Boat US, I priced them when I bought my 1982 boat and they were more than twice the price of anyone else. I can't believe that they would give any better service for that price. I have insured with Geico, but through Ski Safe instead of Boat US. No problems.

Maybe because Ski Safe excludes hurricanes. Just not covered! Live aboard add about 80% to the low basic premium. Policy only good in Florida. I prefer a policy that covers me if some uninsured hulk breaks loose and damages my boat in a hurricane.

[Training Wheels]

My boatUS policy just went up 70%. Shopping for insurance now!

[Tetepare]

[QUOTE=ramblinrod;2482611]Every marine insurance policy is like this.

Did you bother to read the posts in this thread? If you did, you would know that Amica only depreciates "consumables"- and if you did, you probably wouldn't be so wrong right now.

What do you expect? Since you're asking me, I expect people to read the thread before opening their traps.

If you have a 30 year old boat, and forget to open the seawater intake, the insurance company should install a brand new diesel at no cost to you?


Whether I forget to open the seacock or a plastic bag gets sucked in is immaterial. The insurance policies cover both happenstance and negligence. The proposed scenario is only a distraction from a serious topic.


Why on earth would they do that?

You didn't have a new one before, why should you have a new one after?

Cripes, I'm impressed that they will give you a new one for toasting a 19 year old one.

Repeating the same thing three times doesn't make it any more realistic or significant.

Insurance companies don't just give out new motors. They have networks of used parts suppliers. More than likely, they will "find" the client a motor. The first one will have clearly been submerged for months; this one is refused. The second one looks somewhat better, but is definitely well used and out of a saltwater boat; that too gets refused. They may come up with a fair replacement on the third try (note that this motor will cost them more than the first two combined) but if the client can demonstrate that one isn't of equal quality to the original motor, then yes, the fourth motor might be new. But it won't be the whole thing drop-in, it will be stripped.


Would you want to pay so much in insurance premiums that should you wreck something old on your old boat you would get a brand new one?

One might suspect that the willingness depends upon the price delta for the premium.

If you could afford that much in insurance premiums, surely you could just buy the new boat and enjoy it without having to wreck it?

I understand there is an opiate problem in some areas of the globe. And that pot is now legal in a number of US states. I think that we may have detected a synergy with this post.

What this results in is an increasing deductible to replace parts with new, dependant on age. Makes perfect sense to me.

I dunno. A friend of mine pulled a P38 Lightning out of a swamp where it had been for 74 years. He sent it to AUS for restoration, and they're going to use many new parts on that old junker.

Parts degrade differently with age. As well by location. Many 50 year old sailboats in the Great Lakes are on the original standing rigging. My 27 YO chromed pits and stanchions look like new. It's the same old keel, same lead, same shape after all these years.

The insurance payout shouldn't be against the old part (except for consumables) but against the repair/ replacement material. Does glas matting and West System cost less for new boats than old boats? Last time I was at West Marine to buy epoxy they didn't ask how old the boat was to determine retail price.

Is the price for a mast for a 1985 Catalina 30 any different than that of a 1993 Catalina 30? Is it reasonable to think that the older mast is devalued due to use? (hint: the answer is "no").


Somehow what got missed here is that the boat is already depreciated over time due to market. My boat was $65k new; I paid $40k for it, and it's now worth $24k. EVERYTHING on the boat has thus already suffered depreciation. That an insurance carrier will replace it with a like used part is evidence of that, as is the total loss payout and the line at which they can terminate repair. But GEICO is sliding in a false economy by introducing an extra, artificial multiplier that results in an inverse asymptotic depreciation, and that's just dishonest.




Hey, what do you know?!! This forum has an "ignore list". Thanks for being first on my ignore list.

[tdoster]

First. BoatUS and Geico are one of the best companies for actually paying claims fairly and quickly. BoatUS is an advocate and agent for the consumer, who has done a decent job over the years wearing both hats evident in the claims they have paid.

Ask about Agreed and ACV (Actual Cash Value). No one is going to give you Agreed without a survey anymore, period. Surveys also protect the consumer as any maintenance item deemed deficient on the survey and taken care of at that time establishes the owner as maintenance consciences.

partial loss replacement. Yes, if you have two 40 year old Harken 40 Self-Tailing winches stolen off your boat, you are not going to get paid for two brand new winches at West Marine. Insurance is to put you back where you were, not better you for the loss. If the above were to happen, it is simple enough to check the consignment, eBay, etc. for like winches and the cost - the insurance company will pay that. The percentage is the best guess at depreciation since they don't have as many sources as automobiles for used parts as a basis. Either accept the depreciation, or find the parts on the used market for "like" replacements.

For your case, you have a boat that is not whole, but you want to insure it as a boat and it is currently and will be for some time, on the hard and on your property. There are two things I would ask an agent about. Schedule the boat on your Property Policy, and/or a Builders Risk Policy as you are doing the work.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Captndave1

Why would anyone insure with Boat US, I priced them when I bought my 1982 boat and they were more than twice the price of anyone else. I can't believe that they would give any better service for that price. I have insured with Geico, but through Ski Safe instead of Boat US. No problems.

When we first bought our boat, BoatUS was the only company we could get to insure us. Others either flat out declined us or were prohibitively expensive.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Hey, what do you know?!! This forum has an "ignore list". Thanks for being first on my ignore list.

The point is, that the OP completely misinterpreted their policy, and I explained why insurance claims should consider depreciation (the way they actually do, not the way the OP originally interpreted).

If you can't handle that, then putting me on your "ignore list" is certainly my preference. Thank You!

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

The point is, that the OP completely misinterpreted their policy, and I explained why insurance claims should consider depreciation (the way they actually do, not the way the OP originally interpreted).

It wasn't just me that interpreted it the way I did. An agent at a very reputable agency interpreted it the same way. BoatUS agent kind of cleared it up for me but said the depreciation is applied on a case by case basis. This makes me really interested in real world claims experience with any members here in how it was applied to them.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Wind River

It wasn't just me that interpreted it the way I did. An agent at a very reputable agency interpreted it the same way. BoatUS agent kind of cleared it up for me but said the depreciation is applied on a case by case basis. This makes me really interested in real world claims experience with any members here in how it was applied to them.

As you can see, BoatUS/Geico confirmed the high depreciation in writing to me. They didn't write anything about selectively applying depreciation. I wouldn't trust Geico at all based on verbal claims.

I have to get my policy to Amica, and they are going to provide a quote.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Wind River

It wasn't just me that interpreted it the way I did. An agent at a very reputable agency interpreted it the same way. BoatUS agent kind of cleared it up for me but said the depreciation is applied on a case by case basis. This makes me really interested in real world claims experience with any members here in how it was applied to them.

But the point is, if you have an old boat to start with, and it gets wrecked in some way, when repaired, you should not have a new boat, nor an old boat with all brand new parts.

The same way, a lot of people, when performing a repair on an old car, will get used or remanufactured parts instead of new, when it is coming out of their pocket. It just makes sense.

I have never heard of an insurance company, not covering the full cost of primary construction materials (e.g. fibreglass, resin, coring materials) to make the boat as it was (or reasonably near to it), up to value of the policy.

(Marine fibreglass and gelcoat repair is about 25% of my business.)

[hellosailor]

The phrasing in the policy shown actually is nonsense. It is ungrammatical English, and it does not actually say "10 % of what?" as opposed to "10%" and leaving the reader to guess whether that is 10% of the original value, or the current value, or 10% less than the previous year's value...And what happens in the courts is that when something in a one-sided contract cannot be read clearly, it is always construed against the party who wrote it.
So, I'm guessing some poor clerk who didn't have a BA in English actually wrote that clause and totally screwed it up.
It isn't worth used dog food without an express query and letter of clarification from Geico, and that concerned BROKER should have gotten exactly that, if they were really concerned about their clients.
Geico ain't angels, but they're hardly the Scrooge McDuck of the industry. This is simply screwed up, and Geico's management needs to know about that.

As to fairly insuring the boat...If it is all apart, perhaps it isn't really a "boat" with normal market value. Or perhaps since it is stored on the OP's business property, his business insurance can cover it?

Worries about things like fire can be lessened by adding smoke detectors and presumably tying them into the existing alarm and monitoring service. And of course, excess jackstands or a cradle can help ensure it doesn't fall over. Insurance doesn't ensure anything, except payouts in the event of a loss.