Best investment while we travel

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by HBWT

The amount of bad advice here is truly astounding.

I would say that it WOULD be astounding, except that horribly bad advice is the one thing that you can always count on when the subject of investments comes up on an internet forum. So, maybe less "astounding" and more "to be expected."

Sad, really, that so many people are so anxious to offer such wildly inappropriate advice, when they know practically nothing about the OPs financial situation. Sadder still, perhaps, that this is exactly what one must expect.

[DsquareD]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I would say that it WOULD be astounding, except that horribly bad advice is the one thing that you can always count on when the subject of investments comes up on an internet forum. So, maybe less "astounding" and more "to be expected."

Sad, really, that so many people are so anxious to offer such wildly inappropriate advice, when they know practically nothing about the OPs financial situation. Sadder still, perhaps, that this is exactly what one must expect.

To be fair, the OP asked a pretty open ended question.

I think what he meant was, "Hey all you cruisers out there who have a nest egg invested, tell me a little something about your mix that allows you to live the way that you do." Or words to that effect.

I'm also curious to see what others are doing. I'm still heavily invested in stocks right now and would like to make some changes over the next few years.


Dennis

Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

(...)

P.S. why would you think bitcoin should not be included in a discussion on investment/finances?

Because the OP asked about an investment while they travel. Not about a wild speculation on rigged pseudo currency devices used by criminals and terrorists.

If you are interested in discussing such matters why not consider posting your revelations at a forum aimed at just that.

b.

[puffcard]

Invest in the great american gold rush, weed stocks. 20 states are voting to decriminalizing weed. Expecting growth of +600% in 4 years.

[barnakiel]

Frankly, I have re-read the whole thread and failed to find much terrible advice.

We may differ in our definitions of what makes an investment. We will also differ in how much of our money should be in the 'keep value' vs. the 'create value' parts of our portfolios.

And this all may differ too with how much money one needs to travel.

Out of 500k, I would use only maybe a fifth to generate my travel expenses flow. BUT my boat is only 26 feet long and just 9 feet across. And I could divine in excess of 5% p.a. on our own money over last 15 years with zero effort and only minimal supervision. (Disclaimer: I doubt this will be equally easy, if possible at all, over next 10 years).

So, for me, the remaining 400k would be parked in the 'hold value' part of my basket.

Someone else will have a fine cat and a big family, they may need to use the whole sum to generate X% p.a. And if the X is a figure tall enough, then this can be achieved only by accepting very high, possibly wildly high, risks. This is a no no in my book. This is beyond my definition of what makes a good investment.

So, as many have pointed out already, 'it all depends'.

But I do think a number of valid investment ideas popped up thru this, and other, threads on 'cruising/retirement money'.

Big hug from a 'small gain no pain' "investor",

b.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Because the OP asked about an investment while they travel. Not about a wild speculation on rigged pseudo currency devices used by criminals and terrorists.

If you are interested in discussing such matters why not consider posting your revelations at a forum aimed at just that.

b.

Your money is already just numbers in somebody's computer, the only question you have to ask yourself, who's computer?

There is wild speculation on the US dollar, it is rigged by the central banks and the vast majority of criminals and terrorists use the banking system and cash...

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-...undering-risk/

If you meant to refer to price volatility, it has been more stable than the UK Pound so far this year. It was the best performing currency in the world last year and every year since 2010 except one.

Insisting that cryptocurrencies have no place in a finance discussion in 2016 is ignorant and misguided. I'm simply arguing for a tiny diversification of up to 1% as the system is designed to reward earlier adopters. It's so easy now with circle, coinbase etc.

All done. That's my 2 Satoshi's worth.

Paul.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

Your money is already just numbers in somebody's computer, the only question you have to ask yourself, who's computer?

(...)

No, Paul.

You are making specific statements based on your generic, but incomplete, knowledge. There is an old proverb about incomplete knowledge that fits here. Look it up.

Contrary to some Hollywood productions starring some vastly popular but otherwise mediocre Hollywood stars, not all stock brokers are hedonistic idiots, nor all of us are crooks. There are also some who studied when young, worked hard making some people rich, retired early, bought a very small (laughably small, by Western standards) boat, sailed round the world and now are living a semi retired life making only short trips to the West Indies and back now and then (touch wood, this winter again, should our summer deal close successfully).

So much for my money being numbers in someone's computer.

You, however, advertise things which clearly are just that (pseudo currencies - which are only a computer record).

I respect you. You may be very young and young people are allowed to dream big and be a little stupid at times. Part of the learning game is making mistakes. I did mine you are doing yours. Hopefully in another ten years we will both look back and have a good laugh. If we are still around.

Wishing you best success in your speculations.

Cheers,
b.

[Cheechako]

I'll trust the investment crowd when they only make money on my profits. ... and profits aren't realized until you sell.

[Bulawayo]

Dennis, I would be very happy to share the information. I can put you in touch with the people that I use for my property investment and I receive a very healthy monthly income - it's enabled me to upgrade my boat a couple of times as well as adding to my portfolio and supporting us month by month. Contracts are drawn up to legally protect the investment as well. I did a lot of due diligence work in this regard and continue to slowly increase my portfolio which in turn increases my passive income AND my capital. I'm happy to put you in touch with the same people I use. This is particularly pertient at the moment with the exchange rates being so beneficial for $ to £.




You should write a "how to" for the rest of us then. I would have no clue where to begin with real estate in England.

The best I've done so far, since liquidating my real property, is an REIT called PSEC, which has been paying monthly dividends of 12% per annum. However, I don't recommend it, as I do not believe it is sustainable. I've already divested half of my holdings and will be selling the rest soon. At least it's liquid and I can get rid of it quickly.

I've frequently pondered how well I could live on a boat with just that one investment, but then I realize how dangerous it would be to put too much in one basket.


Dennis

Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum[/QUOTE]

[poiu]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

I think the BEST and safest investment in the world right now is "PRODUCTIVE FARMLAND" You can lease your farmland for 6% if you are lazy. Being on a 4 year cruise if you aren't having a lazy vacation (at times) you will blow all our cruising dreams.

Productive farmland in Canada bought in today's market for commodity crops like winter wheat, oats, etc. can be leased out for a easy 6% return. If you get tropical farmland that has a niche on the other side of the spectrum you could get a 300% annual return. But at the end of the day... unlike gold you can eat it and regardless of war, depressions etc. PEOPLE GOT TO EAT!

6%. Is that really possible? It is more like 1.5% in the UK.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Dennis, I would be very happy to share the information. I can put you in touch with the people that I use for my property investment and I receive a very healthy monthly income - it's enabled me to upgrade my boat a couple of times as well as adding to my portfolio and supporting us month by month. Contracts are drawn up to legally protect the investment as well. I did a lot of due diligence work in this regard and continue to slowly increase my portfolio which in turn increases my passive income AND my capital. I'm happy to put you in touch with the same people I use. This is particularly pertient at the moment with the exchange rates being so beneficial for $ to£

[/QUOTE]

Well done so far, but take care with SE England property. It has has had a ridiculous run up and it won't go on for ever without dropping. In my view it is a bubble waiting to pop. Just like Silicon Valley, classic cars, government bonds and the market value of the Kardashians amongst many others.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

No, Paul.

You are making specific statements based on your generic, but incomplete, knowledge. There is an old proverb about incomplete knowledge that fits here. Look it up.

Contrary to some Hollywood productions starring some vastly popular but otherwise mediocre Hollywood stars, not all stock brokers are hedonistic idiots, nor all of us are crooks. There are also some who studied when young, worked hard making some people rich, retired early, bought a very small (laughably small, by Western standards) boat, sailed round the world and now are living a semi retired life making only short trips to the West Indies and back now and then (touch wood, this winter again, should our summer deal close successfully).

So much for my money being numbers in someone's computer.

You, however, advertise things which clearly are just that (pseudo currencies - which are only a computer record).

I respect you. You may be very young and young people are allowed to dream big and be a little stupid at times. Part of the learning game is making mistakes. I did mine you are doing yours. Hopefully in another ten years we will both look back and have a good laugh. If we are still around.

Wishing you best success in your speculations.

Cheers,
b.

That was a very patronising reply without acknowledging my responses to your accusations which included citation. You said criminals and terrorists, I linked to a government report disproving that, you didn't respond. Do you not change your opinions based upon new information? You have not offered a single coherent argument against cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. FYI, I'm 45 years old.

By the way, I'm not advertising anything, simply taking part in a discussion. Are you advertising equities?

I'll take the bet on the situation in 10 years and agree to disagree in the mean time. If you evolve your thinking before then, I make a sincere offer for you to reach out - I'd be happy to chat on the subject.

Respectfully

Paul.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

That was a very patronising reply without acknowledging my responses to your accusations which included citation. You said criminals and terrorists, I linked to a government report disproving that, you didn't respond. Do you not change your opinions based upon new information? You have not offered a single coherent argument against cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. FYI, I'm 45 years old.

By the way, I'm not advertising anything, simply taking part in a discussion. Are you advertising equities?

I'll take the bet on the situation in 10 years and agree to disagree in the mean time. If you evolve your thinking before then, I make a sincere offer for you to reach out - I'd be happy to chat on the subject.

Respectfully

Paul,

Paul.

Sorry for having sounded somewhat patronizing. That was intentional and indeed not very educated. I apologize for my theatrical rather than factual wording in that post.

Please look at the source "disproving" my statement. You truly do not know what coindesk is? More googling, some deep thinking and some open mind. But to have an open mind you can not be vested. Are you?

Whenever you read great news on digital pseudo currencies you read it on rigged sources. Sources that belong to the same people who started, own and rig the product, the 'exchanges', the 'vaults' and the rest of the related infrastructure. Sources that read other sources selectively, then quote what fits their goal.

I would suggest to read and think of what these people (no sources are independent these days, are they?) have to say:

Beware of these Five Bitcoin Scams | Investopedia
Biggest Bitcoin Heists
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

The last one is a bit long in the tooth but more detailed. You will easily find an updated list on the web, hundred of cases long by now.

I owe it: I did not read this particular UK report before (I do a lot of reading and writing daily and the bloody day is still just 24 hours long) and I promise I will. However, I am not sure how very deep into the paper you dig. For I have found a quote there that sounds most disturbing to me (the quote given below). But I will read thru most of the report where it relates to the present scope of my financial interest. That's part of my retirement job. Read, think, ask, move on. And try to make my funds last as long as viable.

The quote goes : ... Digital currencies are the preferred method of online payment for illicit commodities including firearms and drugs. The majority of dark web websites have payment systems reliant on digital currencies because of the perceived anonymity of these types of payment product. Current criminal exploitation of Bitcoin can be divided into two distinct areas: internally against the Bitcoin platform and users themselves, for example theft or fraud; and externally by exploiting the system as a means of exchange, for example money laundering, terrorist financing or the purchase of criminal commodities. ..."

Given knowledge of the above and given my education and professional experience in the field, I refuse to accept your proposition that buying digital pseudo currencies is a 'best investment while one travels'. I also refuse to accept your view that such behaviour is investment while the whole investment world agrees it is but a wild speculation.

I think our conversation here now does not belong to this thread. You may consider starting your own thread to avoid giving false signals to the OP and to people interested in this subject.

I think one of many bitcoin forums could be a better place to discuss the matter further.

Good luck in chasing your financial rabbit!

Best regards,
b.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Sorry for having sounded somewhat patronizing. That was intentional and indeed not very educated. I apologize for my theatrical rather than factual wording in that post.

Please look at the source "disproving" my statement. You truly do not know what coindesk is? More googling, some deep thinking and some open mind. But to have an open mind you can not be vested. Are you?

Whenever you read great news on digital pseudo currencies you read it on rigged sources. Sources that belong to the same people who started, own and rig the product, the 'exchanges', the 'vaults' and the rest of the related infrastructure. Sources that read other sources selectively, then quote what fits their goal.

I would suggest to read and think of what these people (no sources are independent these days, are they?) have to say:

Beware of these Five Bitcoin Scams | Investopedia
Biggest Bitcoin Heists
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

The last one is a bit long in the tooth but more detailed. You will easily find an updated list on the web, hundred of cases long by now.

I owe it: I did not read this particular UK report before (I do a lot of reading and writing daily and the bloody day is still just 24 hours long) and I promise I will. However, I am not sure how very deep into the paper you dig. For I have found a quote there that sounds most disturbing to me (the quote given below). But I will read thru most of the report where it relates to the present scope of my financial interest. That's part of my retirement job. Read, think, ask, move on. And try to make my funds last as long as viable.

The quote goes : ... Digital currencies are the preferred method of online payment for illicit commodities including firearms and drugs. The majority of dark web websites have payment systems reliant on digital currencies because of the perceived anonymity of these types of payment product. Current criminal exploitation of Bitcoin can be divided into two distinct areas: internally against the Bitcoin platform and users themselves, for example theft or fraud; and externally by exploiting the system as a means of exchange, for example money laundering, terrorist financing or the purchase of criminal commodities. ..."

Given knowledge of the above and given my education and professional experience in the field, I refuse to accept your proposition that buying digital pseudo currencies is a 'best investment while one travels'. I also refuse to accept your view that such behaviour is investment while the whole investment world agrees it is but a wild speculation.

I think our conversation here now does not belong to this thread. You may consider starting your own thread to avoid giving false signals to the OP and to people interested in this subject.

I think one of many bitcoin forums could be a better place to discuss the matter further.

Good luck in chasing your financial rabbit!

Best regards,
b.

I appreciate the apology, thanks.

The source was the UK Government, not the website I linked to that reported on it. You are being disingenuous. Why not reply after reading it or not at all?

I'm aware of the vast majority of bitcoin scams and heists. Are you aware that bitcoin itself has never been hacked since its creation in 2009? Did you know the computer network protecting it has over 250 times more processing power than the top 500 super computers in the world?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbe...-combined/amp/

Is Forbes a more acceptable website for you?

Upon reading that a bank was robbed at gunpoint, does your faith in the US Dollar diminish?

Which signals am I sending which are false BTW?

Rigged sources? None of that in the broader financial journalism space?

Why do you keep insisting I go to another thread to discuss this topic but don't recommend the OP go to a finance thread rather than a boating forum? Either finance is a legitimate topic on this forum or it's not. Who are you to limit discussion of one asset class?

To repeat again, my original post suggested 1% or $5000 out of half a million dollars - hardly a radical suggestion and an important new addition to the diversification investment principle.

To answer your question, I am vested in that I earn bitcoin, buy things with bitcoin, donate with bitcoin and have some bitcoin in my wallet.

Did having dollars in your bank account make you biased toward dollar priced investments as a stockbroker and therefore not to be trusted with people's dollars?

Paul.

P.S. Before I'm accused of hijacking the thread, I simply posted one or two sentences initially. It is your misguided assertions that continue to derail things.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

(...)

To repeat again, my original post suggested 1% or $5000 out of half a million dollars - hardly a radical suggestion and an important new addition to the diversification investment principle.

(...)

Yes, it is radical suggestion, Paul.

And yes it is an important new addition: because you have just formulated your very own principle of diversification of investments.

Before now, diversification investment principle was there to lower the overall risk. Not to increase the risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divers..._%28finance%29

In investing, diversification is a tool towards lowering the risk of the portfolio, not towards increasing the risk.

When you invest 1% of an intentionally low risk portfolio in an extremely risky asset, what happens to the overall risk?

Yes, you are making the portfolio more risky. This runs against the aim of diversification in making sound investments.

Furthermore, diversification is done only up to a point. This is to say a well diversified portfolio should not be any more diversified. Diversification runs up operational and intermediary costs and these must be correctly offset by returns.

It is clear (to me) that we have vastly different financial education and backgrounds. It is not easy to discuss when we are not on similar footing. I am tainted by repetitive procedures, arthritic definitions and striving to deliver small, but continuous positive cash flows to (earlier) my clients and now just to me and my sailing partner. You are more of an entrepreneurial spirit, open to the new and to the future.

We are also completely different behavioristically. We could make up a good team if our target were to find all alternatives to any given RQ. Who knows, maybe we yet have a future? ;-)

I have spoken my mind (as limited by my skills in this field given by 15 years of sailing more, working less) and I have tried to warn you against where I perceive you are vulnerable.

As I said, in my opinion we are discussing this matter in a wrong thread and possibly in a wrong forum too.

Discussing digital pseudo currencies, we are not giving (IMHO) the OP good investment advice for their travel.

Standby here, but otherwise out of this part of discussion.

With all respect,
barnakiel