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Old 01-12-2011, 17:44   #31
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

Worse than that is the "stuff for boats" - so much cheaper in USA.
Is there any benefit to getting "seaworthy" and motoring to a duty free port with cheap labor? Then order the rest of the gear form the USA.
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Old 01-12-2011, 17:57   #32
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

Australia = great lifestyle; generous holidays; easy to find space on your own, on land and at sea; great climate; relatively isolated from the worst of the world's problems -- We're gonna prompt some sharp criticism here soon...so we'd better stop! -- so is it really a surprise that demand (and thus price) is high here?

As for boats in particular, they generally have to be shipped (one way or another...in materials or components) a LONG way to arrive here...and that too ends up in their costs.

It's still a splendid place to live though!

All that said, we can hardly disagree with the OP as we bought our vessel in Europe and then sailed her out here via the Panama Canal, landing her at still well below her local 'value' even after paying all the import taxes and delivery costs across two oceans and three seas.
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Old 01-12-2011, 18:39   #33
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Originally Posted by D&D View Post
generous holidays
Is that why our tourist industry is in the toilet at the moment?
Quote:
As for boats in particular, they generally have to be shipped (one way or another...in materials or components) a LONG way to arrive here...and that too ends up in their costs.
The two other boats I had in the OP were both made in Australia from Australian materials, Steel and Timber.
Most other components are probably made locally or near by as well.
How do you explain the extortionate pricing in those cases?

How do you explain that a Holden Monaro from Australia sells in the USA for $20,000 yet a similar American car sells here for $100,000 plus?
They both got freighted the same distance.
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Old 01-12-2011, 18:43   #34
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Is there any benefit to getting "seaworthy" and motoring to a duty free port with cheap labor? Then order the rest of the gear form the USA.
That is certainly a plan that I am working towards.

Has anyone had experience getting stuff into Langkawi , which is a duty free Island?
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Old 01-12-2011, 19:21   #35
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That is certainly a plan that I am working towards.

Has anyone had experience getting stuff into Langkawi , which is a duty free Island?
My brother just did his haulout in Langkawi. The yard had no issues with him doing the work and he reports everyone helpful. It is a duty free port. I have not spent a lot of time there but have lived in Asia for 25 years. Labor in Malaysia will likely be higher than Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines and lower than Singapore.

I would say the work quality is better (best?) in Thailand especially wood work although good work can be found in Indonesia and the Philippines. However, all Asian boat labor needs to be closely supervised especially mechanical, electrical and rigging.

If you get the boat to the point where you can get it there and stay aboard it would be a decent place to finish it up. Your personal living expenses would be a lot lower than Australia but you would have to figure in yard fees and so on.

The big "risk" (no offense meant) is that if this build has taken 10 years, how long do you think you will be "parked" in Malaysia. Be a shame to have your dreams shattered by running out of enthusiasm for being in Malaysia.

BTW - if you do decide to stay long term in Malaysia check out (google) Malaysia My Second Home. It is a retirement scheme for foreigners that allows long term visa and some special tax breaks. It is pretty easy to qualify. MM2H is factoring into my oersonal retirment plans.
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Old 01-12-2011, 19:58   #36
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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I would say the work quality is better (best?) in Thailand
I was thinking of getting the bits onto Langkawi and then running across to Satun for the work Phithak Shipyard and Services


Quote:
The big "risk" (no offense meant) is that if this build has taken 10 years, how long do you think you will be "parked" in Malaysia.
Well it hasn't been 10 years more like 6 and probably only 4 of actual work on the boat as I have had several other ventures on the go at the same time which have demanded more attention.
Got to pay for it all somehow.

How long getting if finished overseas? I would think that a swarm of workers motivated by money would be at it harder and faster than a single physically burnt out boatbuilder in Australia.

Quote:
Be a shame to have your dreams shattered by running out of enthusiasm for being in Malaysia.
We like it over there a lot and have been guilty of spending more time than we should there recently instead of building boats.

Quote:
BTW - if you do decide to stay long term in Malaysia check out (google) Malaysia My Second Home. It is a retirement scheme for foreigners that allows long term visa and some special tax breaks. It is pretty easy to qualify. MM2H is factoring into my oersonal retirment plans.
My issue will be providing proof of income as they require pension via Govt. approved funds, which my income is not and they also require my assets to be liquid which property is not.

After speaking to many about it and discussing my plans of drifting between Phillipines, Sabah, Malaysia and Thailand with various side trips by plane to other asian countries, it sounds like the life of the visa runner for me.
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Old 01-12-2011, 20:12   #37
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I was thinking of getting the bits onto Langkawi and then running across to Satun for the work Phithak Shipyard and Services

<snip>.

My issue will be providing proof of income as they require pension via Govt. approved funds, which my income is not and they also require my assets to be liquid which property is not.

After speaking to many about it and discussing my plans of drifting between Phillipines, Sabah, Malaysia and Thailand with various side trips by plane to other asian countries, it sounds like the life of the visa runner for me.
Technically you would be importing the gear to Thailand and pretty sure duties would be due. Not saying a lot of bilges don't carry a lot of gear when they get to Thailand. Reshipping commercially or carrying on flights is even more problematic - caveat sailor...

So far my experience in Thailand is that established businesses try to follow the rules and do not want to get crossways with the government. They charge you the taxes anyway so what is their upside for cheating?

My brothers boat was UK registered. The sale took place in Langkawi, perfectly legit as the boat was properly moved out of Thailand and into Langkawi and no taxes were paid. Rolly Tasker offerred to ship the new sails to Langkawi. So no Thai tax would be paid. We enquired about "shipipng" them to the boat that was departing to Langkawi and that was a non-starter. I am sure that if you know people "really" well, more effort can be made to interpret the rules more favorably.

Visa jumping is definitely a way to go. Esepcially if you have your own transportation and want to travel anyway...
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Old 01-12-2011, 21:18   #38
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

Keep the thread going. It's been five years since I have been in Australia, and I am wondering how much things have changed since I was there. I sailed there two times, and both times I felt that OZ was great value for the money. Maybe things have changed.
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Old 01-12-2011, 22:16   #39
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Keep the thread going. It's been five years since I have been in Australia, and I am wondering how much things have changed since I was there. I sailed there two times, and both times I felt that OZ was great value for the money. Maybe things have changed.
With great respect to the OP's concerns, the Title of this thread seems to be at least over-simplified.

Australian indirect taxes are at the core of a lot of the unfavourable price comparisons with overseas. Basic foodstuffs, for example, are generally not subject to high indirect taxes and they compare well price-wise. In fact, if you want the simple life, it can be very economically enjoyed here. Manufactured items, however, where a siginificant portion of boat input costs are found, e.g. engines, rigging, etc, are both often imported and often subject to high indirect taxation. Motor vehicles are often cited for unfavourable price comparison and they, like boats, are another example of both a relatively small local production capability (thus high proportion of imports) and high imported materials content. There are many other unfavourable price comparisons that can be directly attributed to taxation.

The high indirect (and other) taxes support a generous -- Some say overly so -- social 'safety net' which includes expensive items like universal medical care and disability support arrangements, as well as infrastructure over a vast nation-continent (the same size as continental USA) and funded by a relatively small population.

Such is life in Australia, but of course that also makes it a relatively safe and relaxed place to live...and then there's all that room and that brilliant climate.

So as much as we appreciate the OP's concerns -- We already admitted we bought our boat overseas! -- it still seems, in our humble view, well-and-truly overtstated to describe OZ as "an Overpiced Sh**hole". We take the view that, to enjoy the good life which we do here, there's needs to be room for others to do the same...and that 'room' inevitably reflects itself in costs. "Overpriced" perhaps, but definitely not a "Sh**hole".
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Old 02-12-2011, 00:54   #40
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

It's really only the electronics...

It's really only the electronics that are much cheaper in the US. Everything else, if one price adjusts, is on a par with Oz.

It's easy, when comparing to forget about sales tax and tipping. Sales tax is added on after the final price and is not (in my experience) included in quotes. Tips are added on to, and 15% is expected. So we're looking at 25% on top of the quoted price in many instances.

One would expect in the land of tipping and commercial opportunity that the service would be fantastic. Some is good, not as good as you might see in Europe, but good. But some is so abysmal that it makes one wonder how thay could possibly stay in business. Better add another 15% to the cost to make up for it.

And of course if buying a big ticket item it has to be brought back to Oz. Add 40% for that.

Building your own boat, having it where you want, when you want it. Priceless.

Ain't nobody in the US goin' to do that for you.
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Old 02-12-2011, 01:06   #41
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

In Cairns Aug 2009 we needed to re-supply the stock of oil absorbent pads.

$14.95 EACH!!!!!

We bought 2. Then ordered 100 of the exact same product in the USA. Delivered to our son's home in the USA at total cost of 50 cents each, including tax and shipping. Each time we fly home to Texas, on our return trip to the boat we stuff the empty spaces of duffel bags with extra oil absorbent pads.

Yes. We found everything boat-related to be very expensive in Australia.

Judy
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:09   #42
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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In Cairns Aug 2009 we needed to re-supply the stock of oil absorbent pads.........
Nappies are a much better substitute.

A nappy around a fuel filter as you remove it normally means there is no mess.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:14   #43
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Is that why our tourist industry is in the toilet at the moment?...........
It is in the toilet because your government are holding the dollar exchange rate so high. When our money buys so little, but we have to travel so far, the result is a decision to travel elsewhere.

Mind you when you have a two faced premier who goes directly against the election manifesto mandate and imposes carbon tax in order to persuade the green to support her, little matters like exchange rate probably are not even understood.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:09   #44
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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...
... a generous -- Some say overly so -- social 'safety net' which includes expensive items like universal medical care and disability support arrangements, as well as infrastructure over a vast nation-continent (the same size as continental USA) and funded by a relatively small population.
...
Sounds just like Canada together with a vast territory and relatively small population

Canada*:
Total land: 9,984,670 sq km (land: 9,093,507 sq km, water: 891,163 sq km)
Total population: 34,030,589 (July 2011 est.)


Australia*:
Total land: 7,741,220 sq km (land: 7,682,300 sq km, water: 58,920 sq km)
note:includes Lord Howe Island and Macquarie Island
Total population: 21,766,711 (July 2011 est.)


Canada is also more expensive than the States, though the difference is 5-15% excluding local taxes.


*from CIA World Factbook [https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ok/index.html]
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:13   #45
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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It is in the toilet because your government are holding the dollar exchange rate so high. When our money buys so little, but we have to travel so far, the result is a decision to travel elsewhere.
You might not like an inconvenient fact getting in the way of a good story but the Australian dollar was floated way back in 1984. The currency, like those of all modern economies, is in the hands of the markets.

Australia was one of very few countries not to go into recession during the recent global meltdown and the ongoing solid growth, low unemployment and an economy locked into the emerging giants of east Asia are all reflected in the ROA.
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