Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by cat man do

... The two other boats I had in the OP were both made in Australia from Australian materials, Steel and Timber.
Most other components are probably made locally or near by as well.
How do you explain the extortionate pricing in those cases? ...

Australia, in addition to being very remote from other industrialised regions, only has a population of just under 23 million people, compared to (for instance) North America’s population of just under 530 million.
That’s not much of a market.

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Excellent...

It is pretty easy to be rich anywhere. If you're poor you definitely don't want to live in an 3rd world country. US is bad enough but try being poor in India. Puts the price of boat parts in perspective...

I mean not comparable on the other end of the spectrum.
Regarding regular poor - not plagued/refugee/wartorn etc (perhaps they do have a poorer poor)
However, poor People are usually much happier in 3rd world countries. They probably don't realize they are missing dancing with the stars on a 52" flat screen.
Ignorance is bliss

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

However, poor People are usually much happier in 3rd world countries.

Have you a source for this ummm, fact?

High disease rates, low life expectancies, infant mortality......

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Have you a source for this ummm, fact?

High disease rates, low life expectancies, infant mortality......

Sorry my mistake - ill rephrase.
In my opinion and my observations after nearly 3 decades of world travel - poor people seem to be happier in 3rd world countries
Take thailand - not called land of smiles for nothing.
Are you referring to detroit?

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

I think Australia is very overpiriced but soe things are not.
Does it balance out with America - no - definately not.

I am Australian and have spent over 20 years OS and USA.
I returned to Australia in 2000 and gots me a University education. Total bill about 12 bucks.
Equivalent in America -who knows? - but it is not uncommon to have 100k student loan debt to repay (which cannot be expunged by bankruptcy). My daughter pays 30k per year for kindergarten.
I would have stayed in Australia - but I believe there is more opportunity in USA - better conduit to small business (not anymore).
The internet quoat in Australia is so frustrating -extraordinary high prices compared to the rest of the world (including the third world).
I do not believe it is a necessity it is because they can - there is less competition.
Similar to an expensive hotel in America - a cheap to average hotel has free WIFI, free parking, free coffee in room, free breakfast. An expensive hotel has pay for WIFI, pay for parking , pay for everything. etc...
We think the Westmarine is expensive. I have further discounts which vary from product to product. For instance electronics may have 5% discount other things such as a bronze fitting lists at 12.99 but I was charged 3.10 - but probably 2.00 at a plumbing supplier. There are often cheaper options but time and wasted effort play a part too. I reckon "E" series are being replaced early next year - so was able to pick up one for 2,800 - list is 4,429.
Most other regular items are far cheaper in USA than Australia - most staples - food, beer, gasoline, cigarettes. I would say that university, insurance and women are the more expensive.
I received a payout for my software business 6 months before the 2008 Financial crisis. I put money in 5 year 5% CD's(fixed term deposits). The manager laughed at me and said - "you really think interest rates will stay that lo for 5 years". I said I don't know but I am happy with it. Now it is under 1%. In any case during my panic in 2008 I pulled them out early took a hit(lost all interest) and sent the money to NAB in Australia. have been getting 6% since. And have been incredibly lucky with the exchange rate - sent around .80 cents to the dollar and have been giving it back to Westmarine at around 1.03.
Having said that - USA is 1% Australia is about 6%. I have no trust in either of these banks. ANd the Australian dollar could easily drop back to reality - in the .70c range. Thereby nullifying the risk reward rate of 6% over the US$.
Some country offering 14%? - well be very careful. If you only live there and buy there than the exchange rate doesn't matter - but buying boat stuff will. And then there is the safety of the principle. Will it be returned? Does they country have different laws for foreigners such as Thailand? This money could be lost so easily. risk/reward...
I pay taxes in USA on the interest income I make in Australia. But, I do not double pay due to tax amnesties. Are you sure there is not tax liability back in the western countries for Foreign interest earned?

It also interesting to hear people debate the 2 party system - as if anything any politician does makes any difference. And get defensive and personal about "their"" party (team) - divide and rule. And Australian's are really ruled...
cheers

Agree with most of your comments, six weeks ago we stayed at Crowne Plaza Hotel Fort Lauderdale had to rate as worst i've seen staff service was great management crap. They as a group need to look at how they treat international tourists/money.
Worst internet in our month long travel? SYDNEY AIRPORT!!!!
Davids quote sums up the issue- What's gone wrong in the West is that the Treasury(s) have been looted more than usual (it was always thus - what makes the West "Civilised" is that our corruption is done legally) and the capacity to replenish (by the peasantry) has been vastly reduced. In the good old days you would simply invade somewhere with nice stuff
Am i worried ...yes
What can i do? ... continue with the purchase of our yacht in Anapolis and live off the massive rental for our house here in Australia.
Guilt? ...No way we've worked hard for it!!!
Where is the world economy going to lead us?... Globally probably a punch up in the middle east will re-focus them.
To quote Al Bundy (albeit a little changed) SAIL HARD AND SAIL FAST!!!!

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Have you a source for this ummm, fact?

High disease rates, low life expectancies, infant mortality......

With America's high health costs that quote may well fit USA.........That's sad!

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Australia, in addition to being very remote from other industrialised regions, only has a population of just under 23 million people, compared to (for instance) North America’s population of just under 530 million.
That’s not much of a market.

GORDMAY At last someone who recognises Australia's distance/population issues!!!
Exactly why costs will always be high here and why export of raw commodities shall prevail.
We don't have cheap labour simple as that!!!! Our maid's want $20/hr lol....Our tradesmen $46/hr base rate!!!

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

GORDMAY At last someone who recognises Australia's distance/population issues!!!

And time and time again it has been shown that distance is not the issue.
If a person can bring ONE item into the country from the US or China for half the price that Australian resellers try and gouge for it, that is proof that distance or population is not the problem.

Imagine how cheap it would be if I bought in a container load.

Exactly why costs will always be high here and why export of raw commodities shall prevail.

You have a very short memory.
Remember the last resources boom we had and what happened after?
I do, houses in Blackwater and Dysart could be bought from BHP for less than $20k, tradies were out of work, wages were low and things were pretty tough.

We don't have cheap labour simple as that!!!! Our maid's want $20/hr lol....Our tradesmen $46/hr base rate!!!

We don't have cheap labour at the moment because retailers have to pay high wages to try and keep workers instead of them heading off to the mines and because people are flush with cash and prepared to pay, until they can't.
If you are in Gladstone you should be well aware of the issues that businesses are having in the area and rest assured, if/when the resources boom ends as they always do wages, house prices and the cost of goods will have to come down to more reasonable levels as people simply wont have the money to pay for them anymore.

As an example, in 2003/4 pre boom, a boatbuilders labourer could be had for about $14 an hour.
Two years ago when I tried to get some they tried to gouge me $45 an hour.
Two weeks ago I was approached by someone from a local boatbuilding firm that had failed, he wanted to work for me for $17 and hour.

As people lose jobs and risk losing all the expensive crap they have got into debt for, labour will get cheaper.

Think of your $20 an hour maid example, if you arent getting your high wages anymore, how the hell will you be able to afford a maid or the dog wash guy, the wife wont be able to get her nails done once a week and numerous other stupid jobs and franchises that have been created based on nothing more than a few with higher wages and excess to spend will disappear.

Look to America for an example of how this excess is being washed away

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by cat man do

And time and time again it has been shown that distance is not the issue.
If a person can bring ONE item into the country from the US or China for half the price that Australian resellers try and gouge for it, that is proof that distance or population is not the problem.

Imagine how cheap it would be if I bought in a container load.



You have a very short memory.
Remember the last resources boom we had and what happened after?
I do, houses in Blackwater and Dysart could be bought from BHP for less than $20k, tradies were out of work, wages were low and things were pretty tough.
We don't have cheap labour at the moment because retailers have to pay high wages to try and keep workers instead of them heading off to the mines and because people are flush with cash and prepared to pay, until they can't.
If you are in Gladstone you should be well aware of the issues that businesses are having in the area and rest assured, if/when the resources boom ends as they always do wages, house prices and the cost of goods will have to come down to more reasonable levels as people simply wont have the money to pay for them anymore.

As an example, in 2003/4 pre boom, a boatbuilders labourer could be had for about $14 an hour.
Two years ago when I tried to get some they tried to gouge me $45 an hour.
Two weeks ago I was approached by someone from a local boatbuilding firm that had failed, he wanted to work for me for $17 and hour.

As people lose jobs and risk losing all the expensive crap they have got into debt for, labour will get cheaper.

Think of your $20 an hour maid example, if you arent getting your high wages anymore, how the hell will you be able to afford a maid or the dog wash guy, the wife wont be able to get her nails done once a week and numerous other stupid jobs and franchises that have been created based on nothing more than a few with higher wages and excess to spend will disappear.

Look to America for an example of how this excess is being washed away

I agree with a lot of your comments however where i disagree is the market. If you buy a house in a mining town yes you will be out of work and out of house when the cyclic economy rotates.(who wants to live in those dumps?)
Containers are coming in that's why grinders are $30. It's crap but it's cheap.
Area's of australia are booming whilst others are cooling totally agree. In Gladstones non boom time houses were reasonably priced, crime was higher and goods stable in price.
Yep i feel for the railworkers checkout chicks etc BUT ive noticed more women are entering the workforce taking up those unwanted jobs and kids are not moving out of the nest as much.
Crime appears to have gone down due to the a/holes cant afford the rent.... lmao

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

If you buy a house in a mining town yes you will be out of work and out of house when the cyclic economy rotates.(who wants to live in those dumps?)

This will be Gladstone soon enough. When the LNG is done, thousand of workers who were needed for the building process will move on to the next project leaving the problems behind them for the locals to deal with.

Containers are coming in that's why grinders are $30. It's crap but it's cheap.

And the same applies with a lot of stuff that is cheap to bring in, but we have been gouged for.
You only have to look at how Gerry Harvey Harvey Norman squealed about how bad online buying was and it was doomed to fail and then was forced to conform (too little too late Gerry) for proof of his previous gouging, and this is one of many examples, look to the sales brochures, if, when people arent buying, stores can seemingly have near continual 50% to 75% off sales, OBVIOUSLY we have been getting gouged previously.
Look at all the discount websites offering massive discounts off the usual prices again proving that we have been gouged previously and now, these businesses are struggling, therefore now offering massive discounts in an attempt to stay afloat.
Many will fail.

BUT ive noticed more women are entering the workforce taking up those unwanted jobs and kids are not moving out of the nest as much.

And you see this as a good thing?
It is the poorer families that this is happening to, unable to afford the cost of living, wifie now has to work as well whereas she would have been at home when the kids finished school doing what mothers do.
All these things (extra workload, kids staying at home longer) add's stress to the family environment and can be the cause of domestic violence and eventual family breakdown.

Crime appears to have gone down due to the a/holes cant afford the rent.... lmao

I fail to find how that is amusing.
All that's happened is they have moved to other more affordable suburbs or shared housing causing more concentrated grief for the residents of those areas.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

Sorry my mistake - ill rephrase.
In my opinion and my observations after nearly 3 decades of world travel - poor people seem to be happier in 3rd world countries
Take thailand - not called land of smiles for nothing.
Are you referring to detroit?

I agree, the happiest people I have met with their big smiles, laughing, waving, welcoming me into their homes even feeding me were usually the poorer ones. They had a real sense of family and community, values that western society sadly seem to lack these days.

In contrast, in the same countries the wealthier people were no where near as accommodating.
They had embraced western values and worshipped their expensive baubles. Their fat children now shunned traditional foods, favouring KFC, McDonalds and Pizza Hut, their mothers spent more and more time shopping for "stuff" and getting various beauty treatments done not realizing that they already were beautiful before all the crap was lathered on in an attempt to make them look more "white".

All a bit sad really.

[Mr B]

I bought my 2003 Gemini in Fiji from an american who owned it from new,

Exactly half price of an Australian one. Even tho the boat I bought was a bit more expensive than the going rate for them.

And Why. Because a Multihull was totally out of my price range in Australia,

I buy online, Why. because it is a pittance to pay compared to the same item bought in OZ,
The most expensive part of buying online is the shipping or postage,

A $10-00 part is $30-00 to post, Duhhh.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I agree, the happiest people I have met with their big smiles, laughing, waving, welcoming me into their homes even feeding me were usually the poorer ones. They had a real sense of family and community, values that western society sadly seem to lack these days.

In contrast, in the same countries the wealthier people were no where near as accommodating.
They had embraced western values and worshipped their expensive baubles. Their fat children now shunned traditional foods, favouring KFC, McDonalds and Pizza Hut, their mothers spent more and more time shopping for "stuff" and getting various beauty treatments done not realizing that they already were beautiful before all the crap was lathered on in an attempt to make them look more "white".

All a bit sad really.

Aint that the truth tho.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I bought my 2003 Gemini in Fiji from an american who owned it from new,

Exactly half price of an Australian one. Even tho the boat I bought was a bit more expensive than the going rate for them.

And Why. Because a Multihull was totally out of my price range in Australia,

I buy online, Why. because it is a pittance to pay compared to the same item bought in OZ,
The most expensive part of buying online is the shipping or postage,

A $10-00 part is $30-00 to post, Duhhh.

Yeah

Often the prices for postage in Australia for TV advertised goods is crazy. Clearly they are gouging on the postage.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

I mean not comparable on the other end of the spectrum.
Regarding regular poor - not plagued/refugee/wartorn etc (perhaps they do have a poorer poor)
However, poor People are usually much happier in 3rd world countries. They probably don't realize they are missing dancing with the stars on a 52" flat screen.
Ignorance is bliss

Maybe 25 years ago they didn't know - but they certainly do know what they are missing out on nowadays, not only from Western / Films and TV etc but from there own countrymen enjoying lifestyles they also want.

But poor people do look good in holiday photos

Originally Posted by AllezCat

Sorry my mistake - ill rephrase.
In my opinion and my observations after nearly 3 decades of world travel - poor people seem to be happier in 3rd world countries
Take thailand - not called land of smiles for nothing.
Are you referring to detroit?

My experiances in the LOS were somewhat different.

IME the smiling thing does not only indicate happiness, it's partly simply a default face setting (just as the Poles look like there dog has just died - well, the ones over here do )......but also is a mask to cover emotions, as well as a "safe" expression when unsure / feeling awkward - but there are subtle facial signs about what is going on. But it does also cover happy

Heard a lot of stories about Thais going mental / violent during disagreements - apparently out of the blue, where in fact it was simply the Westerner missing the signs along the way.....due to the smile and the Thai not wishing to embarrass himself in front of the locals by showing emotion - although nowadays many have learnt that when dealing with Westerners that is what works.

Of course for a Westerner most direct interactions with the locals involve giving 'em money - so, they are going to smile .