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Old 04-12-2011, 21:07   #151
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

I've been an expat Aussie for the last 20 years. I fully agree with Cat-man-do's sentiments. Perhaps he could have used a less unkind word than "Sh***hole". But when you're pi$$ed off at being raped at the cash register every day, its hard to be moderate. I'm guessing it was that word which thrilled the readers of CF and has elicited so many comments.

I'm dismayed that there exists fellow countrymen who are apologists of the predatory pricing strategies of retailers in Australia. Worse still, they are using that well worn "tyranny of distance" and "small population" argument to justify the rape of the consumer.

Nowadays, I cheerfully buy everything online and I'm more than happy to pay all import duties. With careful selection of the freight options it is not uncommon to pay 50% of the asking retail price in Australia. In the last 5 years of online shopping, there has not been a single disappointment or failure resulting in a warranty claim - so you can put that old wives tale to bed now.

Later next year, I'll be heading to the USA to buy another boat.
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:09   #152
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Always America has been cheaper than Aust,
I don't think so
The Aud used to be 50c - 70c and people from Australia could rarely afford to buy or travel to the US yet tourists from around the globe flocked here.
Now the tourists dont come here as much because we are too expensive.


Quote:
From this quite a few aussies have risen to the challenge as builders in the world market...
Recently, a lot more have gone belly up.
Others have had to shift their operation's overseas to compete.
A couple of weeks ago I spoke to an Australian shipwright who now imports his aluminium vessels in from China, I assume doing so before they went broke trying to do it here.
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We should also spare a thought for the Kiwi's as they were/are in a much worse prediciment AND haven't they risen to the challenge??? Some of the best superyachts, best ferro-cement yachts, america cup boats WOW!!!!
That was then
Since the GFC which is ongoing, I imagine things have slowed considerably.
NZ Boatbuilders in receivership
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:12   #153
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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If, however, we are focussed on Australian Governments, then there is absolutely no escaping the fact that Australia's current relatively healthy position is hugely attributable to the previous, conservative Government that positioned the economy with substantial surpluses when the recession hit. Simply put, the current Government inherited a windfall.

With repsect (a persepctive that is clearly not shared here), it seems that some of us are indeed At sea...
Well, the last bit is I suppose as exemple of tory (or tea party?) wit and is doubtless original. ROFL

The previous para, on the other hand, reads straight from the Coalition Book of Bedtime Fables. And while it's straying a bit, such myopic comments cannot be left uncorrected.

For starters, the annual budgetary surpluses were simply the result of the growing boom, which commenced in 2002 and became bigger every year thereafter. Treasury, which draws up the budget, was unable to predict the extent of the boom and thus consistently underestimated the revenue that flowed from it.

The annual budget surplusses were the consequence of that uncertainty. Increased expenditure, which normally accompanies windfalls like the boom, were constrained by that uncertainty and by the likely consequential overheating of the economy.

These are macro-economic facts that are part of the historical record. Partisan political observers will claim credit for the government of the day, of course, as you have.

But in any case it's a silly argument to claim that the bloke before did all the good work - because it can be taken back indefinitely. Through the reforms of Hawke and Keating, to Gough Whitlam (who visited China before Nixon), maybe even back to Curtin who pulled our troops home against the command of Churchill from the Europe theatre to defend our northern shores against the Japanese etc etc.

But the real reforms in recent times - the ones that really mattered - were those of Hawke and Keating. They floated the dollar, deregulated the financial system, embarked on a decade long deconstruction of the tariff walls, matched incomes to productivity, opened up markets and trade with east and south east asia (while john howard spurned asia) and so on and on. It was a vigorous and important reformation by Labor.

All of the things and much more turned the Australian economy on its head, from being a high cost, low productivity economy to the opposite - ready and able to participate in China's economic liberation when it came.

These are facts; praise john howard all you like but the economic historians are telling it truthfully.
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:13   #154
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Originally Posted by neelie View Post
I've been an expat Aussie for the last 20 years. I fully agree with Cat-man-do's sentiments. Perhaps he could have used a less unkind word than "Sh***hole".
Yes, Australia is a great place and I was prepared to pay a premium for the privilege, but that premium has ramped up to new levels and can now be called gouging .

It might be acceptable if we had all the great infrastructure that other countries have, look at Singapore for example, but we don't.
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:16   #155
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
I don't think so
The Aud used to be 50c - 70c and people from Australia could rarely afford to buy or travel to the US yet tourists from around the globe flocked here.
Now the tourists dont come here as much because we are too expensive.
Christ on a pogo stick... you can't have it both ways.
1. If the Aussie dollar is weak against foreign currencies, you get lotsa tourists visiting, exporting Aussie-made stuff is easy, but buying foreign-made stuff is expensive.

2. If the Aussie dollar is strong, less tourists, hard to sell export items, imported items are cheap though.

Pick one or the other, cos you can't have both. And for the record, plenty more businesses in the UK, Europe and the USA have gone belly up than in Oz. We have come outof the GFC relatively unscathed, all things considered.
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:17   #156
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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West Marine are expensive. Beating their prices with a little shopping around is not hard to do.
25 years ago West Marine blew all Aussie suppliers out of the water both on price and equipment that was two years ahead of ours.... Fact
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:24   #157
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Christ on a pogo stick... you can't have it both ways.
Hey I was just pointing out that I think lagoon4us was incorrect in his claim that the US has always been cheap.
Quote:
And for the record, plenty more businesses in the UK, Europe and the USA have gone belly up than in Oz. We have come outof the GFC relatively unscathed, all things considered.
I agree.
It still doesn't change the sentiment of the thread that we are being gouged in price for pretty much everything
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:29   #158
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Originally Posted by neelie View Post
I've been an expat Aussie for the last 20 years. I fully agree with Cat-man-do's sentiments.<snip>

But when you're pi$$ed off at being raped at the cash register every day, its hard to be moderate. <snip>

I'm dismayed that there exists fellow countrymen who are apologists of the predatory pricing strategies of retailers in Australia. Worse still, they are using that well worn "tyranny of distance" and "small population" argument to justify the rape of the consumer.

Nowadays, I cheerfully buy everything online and I'm more than happy to pay all import duties. With careful selection of the freight options it is not uncommon to pay 50% of the asking retail price in Australia. In the last 5 years of online shopping, there has not been a single disappointment or failure resulting in a warranty claim - so you can put that old wives tale to bed now.

Later next year, I'll be heading to the USA to buy another boat.
+1 neelie, my sentiments exactly and have fun with the next purchase
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Old 04-12-2011, 21:56   #159
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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it's a silly argument to claim that the bloke before did all the good work - because it can be taken back indefinitely. Through the reforms of Hawke and Keating, to Gough Whitlam (who visited China before Nixon), maybe even back to Curtin who pulled our troops home against the command of Churchill from the Europe theatre to defend our northern shores against the Japanese etc etc.

But the real reforms in recent times - the ones that really mattered - were those of Hawke and Keating. They floated the dollar, deregulated the financial system, embarked on a decade long deconstruction of the tariff walls, matched incomes to productivity, opened up markets and trade with east and south east asia (while john howard spurned asia) and so on and on. It was a vigorous and important reformation by Labor.

All of the things and much more turned the Australian economy on its head, from being a high cost, low productivity economy to the opposite - ready and able to participate in China's economic liberation when it came.

These are facts; praise john howard all you like but the economic historians are telling it truthfully.
It seems we were perhaps unclear, although I suspect there is a fair amount of pre-determined license in the interpretations above. In any event, we most definitely did NOT intend all credit to John Howard. We absolutely agree that the Keating era was marked by brave and important economic reforms. If you read all our earlier posts carefully you will see we freely acknowledge both credit and voting (!) Labour (something we doubt very much you could reciprocate in the other direction?) in the past, but none of that changes the gross over-simplification (at best, really more the error) of your suggestion that prompted our earlier post. You urged our readers to believe that the Duck's...

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government...delivered these outcomes while other nations endured recessions.
As you correctly point out, the Duck can no more claim to have "delivered" Australia's strong current position than any of her historical predessors. So why do YOU persist in that claim? The answer to that question is obvious, viz. you are commiting the sin that you attach to everyone else, struggling hard to not "concede a skerrick of respect" to any political persuasion other than your own.

In fact, the Duck simply spent up big time, and incredibly inefficiently so, blowing the surplus that she inherited. Furthermore the Duck also seems determined to unwind many of the productivity increases so hard fought and won by her predecessors, of both political persuasions.

We are more than happy to vote any way we see this great nation's future interests. Are you? Can you admit (not just theoretically either, with examples) that one-sided ideology exists in all political camps? We genuinely hope so...for all of our sakes.
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Old 05-12-2011, 02:34   #160
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

Attention: To those who believe that they are being gouged at the retail level in Oz.

Just an idea; some of you must have some business acumen of some sort. If so, why don't you set up a retail outlet yourself. Pick a product you have idea about or perhaps one where you know the mark ups are excessive and go into competition.

All you will have to do is set your prices only a little lower than your fellow gougers and the market will come knocking on your door. Hey, set then quite a bit lower and they will flock to you. You will still be making a decent and honest profit and perhaps doing the rest of us a favour by putting the big time gougers out of business. You could even make a fortune.

Put your money where you mouth is.

Isn't this how free markets work, by competition keeping prices down. Don't we have this system already is Oz.

But if perhaps you don't think it will work out, then please stop banging on about being gouged.
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Old 05-12-2011, 02:45   #161
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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If you read all our earlier posts carefully you will see we freely acknowledge both credit and voting (!) Labour...
Voted Labour? That sure must have been a long time ago - last time Labor spelled itself Labour was about 1912.

But what you vote is hardly the point. I have absolutely no problem if you vote Coalition, Green, or Pauline for that matter. It's absolutely none of my business and of absolutely no interest to me.

What I object to is your using this cruising forum to take cheap and derogatory slags at the PM by endorsing Joli's stupid post - and then ever so cutely saying: "But let's keep politics out of this". Talk about two-faced.

If you want to discuss politics, go to one of the many political discussion pages, where your simplistic political and economic history tutorial will be well and truly dismantled.
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Old 05-12-2011, 02:57   #162
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Attention: To those who believe that they are being gouged at the retail level in Oz.

Just an idea; some of you must have some business acumen of some sort. If so, why don't you set up a retail outlet yourself. Pick a product you have idea about or perhaps one where you know the mark ups are excessive and go into competition.

All you will have to do is set your prices only a little lower than your fellow gougers and the market will come knocking on your door. Hey, set then quite a bit lower and they will flock to you. You will still be making a decent and honest profit and perhaps doing the rest of us a favour by putting the big time gougers out of business. You could even make a fortune.

Put your money where you mouth is.

Isn't this how free markets work, by competition keeping prices down. Don't we have this system already is Oz.

But if perhaps you don't think it will work out, then please stop banging on about being gouged.
Well said......
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Old 05-12-2011, 03:10   #163
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

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Originally Posted by neelie View Post
I'm dismayed that there exists fellow countrymen who are apologists of the predatory pricing strategies of retailers in Australia. Worse still, they are using that well worn "tyranny of distance" and "small population" argument to justify the rape of the consumer.

Nowadays, I cheerfully buy everything online and I'm more than happy to pay all import duties. With careful selection of the freight options it is not uncommon to pay 50% of the asking retail price in Australia. In the last 5 years of online shopping, there has not been a single disappointment or failure resulting in a warranty claim - so you can put that old wives tale to bed now.

Later next year, I'll be heading to the USA to buy another boat.
Also coming from an island (albeit slightly smaller ) I share the frustrations of things appearing overpriced .

But when you crunch the numbers it often turns out that to do the same business yourself would give the same retail price, if not higher - mostly from the cost of staff and property (our property bubble is slowly deflating - but still impacts on the staff costs).

Internet has really impacted on local retail business - problem is they can't compete with online pricing, only conveniance (can have a look at / handle an item) and service - but on that one most Jersey retail shops don't help themselves, as are staffed by miserable morons who seem to think they are doing you a favour
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Old 05-12-2011, 03:14   #164
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

Would be a switch to be able to buy our steel and aluminium parts mined, smelted, moulded and machined in Australia. We have the ore and the natural/LPG to do it.

Which political party was it, then, that stands for this?

But strangely we send our ore and gas overseas, only to import the finished products back again at great expense. Or worse, sell it offshore whilst its still in the ground.
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Old 05-12-2011, 03:32   #165
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Re: Australia Is Such an Overpriced Sh**hole - AAARGH

A while ago i ordered 5 tonne of ally plate for a cabin structure on a 34metre charter boat i was building, i early ordered it when we laid the keel, Comalco at that time had just re-furbished its Tassie rolling mill. The plate was ordered to DNV specification, it was rejected on three occasions on thickness tolerance constant, i had to approve then to have the plate supplied ex middle east simply because of the quality.
Sadly a lot of our steel and ally rolling mills have lacked maintenence and skill levels, if Australia were to value add there would be massive capital investment required and sadly our labour costs would screw the whole exercise.
We are all guilty of purchasing cheap whether by internet, Kmart (read china) whatever after all our dollars are hard to come by BUT every time we do we collectively put pressure on our Aussie businesses.
I was in the states a month ago and watched Obama address a college regarding future work paths for graduates, i tell you listening to that you were left with the feeling that America won't be heading towards manufacture anytime soon.
China is the new Japan just as we supplied raw materials to that market then so too we will to China. We are just the consumers our skills are being lost and thats a real worry.
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