Aussie owner Italian flag

[Factor]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

How strange that beneteau-500, Nevis Dog, and myself have all brought foreign flagged yachts into Australia and have had no problems at all, despite being Australian nationals... just lucky I guess.

It would appear so. As I said, the OP can go with your luck or he can check with AMSA, his call

[Factor]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I believe you completely misunderstand the implications of the Australian regulations. Before offering your opinion here (and all you have is an opinion, like everyone else), perhaps YOU should first check with AMSA that your advice is correct.

At least I have read the Act. And I have already checked with AMSA. Perhaps you should do the same.

[Factor]

Anyway - out of here. the OP has a choice. Check with AMSA or not.

[daletournier]

Factor, you maybe misinterpreting what your reading.

I've registered a previous yacht with Amsa while overseas (Belize) and didn't pay duty or gst, this was only due once I returned to Oz, therefore I know this first hand.

An Australian can own a foreign flagged yacht, such as Langkawi Malaysia, of course if he brings it home and plans to keep in Oz he eventually will need to import the boat, Australian register it and pay duty and gst.

My previous boat now has a Malaysian flag and is owned by an Australian lady living in Phuket, I sailed the boat to Langkawi and was involved in the process,no problems. No need for boat or skipper to actually be there.

Many foreign nationals have their boats flagged differently for various reasons, not abnormal, I personally haven't come across a problem in this area.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Factor, you maybe misinterpreting what your reading.

I've registered a previous yacht with Amsa while overseas (Belize) and didn't pay duty or gst, this was only due once I returned to Oz, therefore I know this first hand.

An Australian can own a foreign flagged yacht, such as Langkawi Malaysia, of course if he brings it home and plans to keep in Oz he eventually will need to import the boat, Australian register it and pay duty and gst.

My previous boat now has a Malaysian flag and is owned by an Australian lady living in Phuket, I sailed the boat to Langkawi and was involved in the process,no problems. No need for boat or skipper to actually be there.

Many foreign nationals have their boats flagged differently for various reasons, not abnormal, I personally haven't come across a problem in this area.

Firstly GST/DUTY and Registration are two seperate and distinct issues managed by two seperate and distinct Commonwealth departments.

Read above, yes you can own a foreign flagged vessel, but if you are an Australian Citizen and you undertake any of the actions mentioned in Section 68 of the Shipping Act, and you own the vessel, you MUST have Australian Registration.

I also suspect I have imported a few more vessels than most here

[daletournier]

Factor, you have been given several real world, actually happened and are happening examples by real people. Are they all just lucky?

[Factor]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Factor, you have been given several real world, actually happened and are happening examples by real people. Are they all just lucky?

Nope you win - the Op should not read the Act or the AMSA website or contact them, he should go with doing what other people do and get away with, cause like - you know - that has always been a defence at Criminal Law.

Here is an idea, read the Act, - specifically Section 12, 13 and 68 and 69 and the relevant definitions and get back to me.

[El Pinguino]

Is this the Section 68 that you are talking about? No mention of 'Australian' registration here..

'SHIPPING REGISTRATION ACT 1981 - SECT 68

Unregistered ships not to leave Australia
(1) An unregistered ship shall not depart from an Australian port to a place outside Australia.

(2) The master and owner of a ship that departs from an Australian port in contravention of subsection (1) each commit an offence punishable upon conviction:

(a) if the offender is a natural person--by a fine not exceeding 20 penalty units; or

(b) if the offender is a body corporate--by a fine not exceeding 50 penalty units.

(2A) An offence under subsection (2) is an offence of strict liability.

Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .

(3) A Collector of Customs shall not grant a Certificate of Clearance in respect of an unregistered ship that is about to depart from an Australian port to a place outside Australia.

(4) Subsections (1) and (3) do not apply to a prescribed ship, or ships included in a prescribed class of ships.'

And no mention here that the ship must be registered in Australia, simply that it must be registered

' Vessels purchased overseas by Australians are also required to be registered before they sail for Australia or another foreign country'.

[El Pinguino]

And also.... what dealings did you have with AMSA the last time you entered Australia from overseas on a yacht? Did they come aboard with Customs, Immigration, and Quarantine to check your registration papers?

[El Pinguino]

And 69 .. SHIPPING REGISTRATION ACT 1981 - SECT 69

Unregistered ships not to leave foreign ports
(1) Where an unregistered ship is at a foreign port at which there is a proper officer, the ship shall not depart from that port on a voyage unless and until a registration certificate or provisional registration certificate is granted in respect of the ship.

(2) The master and owner of a ship that departs from a foreign port in contravention of subsection (1) each commit an offence punishable upon conviction:

(a) if the offender is a natural person--by a fine not exceeding 20 penalty units; or

(b) if the offender is a body corporate--by a fine not exceeding 50 penalty units.

(2A) An offence under subsection (2) is an offence of strict liability.

Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a prescribed ship, or ships included in a prescribed class of ships.'

Once again... no mention of Australia..... a yacht registered in Belgium or the Cook Islands or BVI is not an unregistered ship....

[Factor]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Is this the Section 68 that you are talking about? No mention of 'Australian' registration here..

'SHIPPING REGISTRATION ACT 1981 - SECT 68.

Well there is, but you need to read the definitions, section 12 13 68 and 69 inter alia, you cannot read one section on its own, its a principle of Statutory Interpretation called Ejusdum Generis.

3* Interpretation
************ (1)* In this Act, unless the contrary intention appears:

Australian national means:
******************** (a)* an Australian citizen;

Australian‑owned ship has the meaning given by section*8.

foreign country means a country other than Australia.
foreign port means a port in a foreign country.

registered means registered under this Act in:
******************** (a)* the General Register; or
******************** (b)* the International Register.

unregistered ship means a ship entitled to be registered that is not registered.

6* Application of Act
****************** This Act extends to every external Territory and to acts, omissions, matters and things outside Australia, whether or not in a foreign country.

8* Australian‑owned ships
************ (1)* A reference in this Act to an Australian‑owned ship shall be read as a reference to a ship that:
******************** (a)* is owned by an Australian national or Australian nationals, and by no other person;

12* Obligation to register Australian‑owned ships
************ (1)* Subject to this Part, every Australian‑owned ship shall be registered under this Act.
************ (2)* Where an Australian‑owned ship is operated by a foreign resident under a demise charter, the Authority may, by instrument in writing, exempt the ship during the term of the charter from the requirement to be registered.
************ (3)* Where a ship required to be registered is not registered, the owner of the ship commits, in respect of each day on which the ship remains unregistered (including the day of a conviction for an offence against this subsection or any subsequent day), an offence, and, whether or not proceedings are instituted for such an offence, the ship may be detained until registration is effected.

13* Exemptions from registration
****************** Ships less than 24 metres in tonnage length, Government ships, fishing vessels and pleasure craft are exempt from the requirement to be registered under section*12 but are subject to section*68 if they are unregistered ships.

68* Unregistered ships not to leave Australia
************ (1)* An unregistered ship shall not depart from an Australian port to a place outside Australia.
************ (2)* The master and owner of a ship that departs from an Australian port in contravention of subsection*(1) each commit an offence punishable upon conviction:
******************** (a)* if the offender is a natural person—by a fine not exceeding 20 penalty units; or
******************** (b)* if the offender is a body corporate—by a fine not exceeding 50 penalty units.
********* (2A)* An offence under subsection*(2) is an offence of strict liability.
Note:********* For strict liability, see section*6.1 of the Criminal Code.
**********

69* Unregistered ships not to leave foreign ports
************ (1)* Where an unregistered ship is at a foreign port at which there is a proper officer, the ship shall not depart from that port on a voyage unless and until a registration certificate or provisional registration certificate is granted in respect of the ship.
************ (2)* The master and owner of a ship that departs from a foreign port in contravention of subsection*(1) each commit an offence punishable upon conviction:
******************** (a)* if the offender is a natural person—by a fine not exceeding 20 penalty units; or
******************** (b)* if the offender is a body corporate—by a fine not exceeding 50 penalty units.
********* (2A)* An offence under subsection*(2) is an offence of strict liability.
Note:********* For strict liability, see section*6.1 of the Criminal Code.
***********

Anyway, good luck. Like I said - out of here.

[Jim Cate]

Seems to my unlettered mind that section 13 above exonerates pleasure vessels of less than 24 meters tonnage length (whatever that means) from the requirement for AUSTRALIAN registration.

The practice and experience reported in several posts seems to support this interpretation. I'm not an Admiralty Lawyer, and might not recognize one if I saw him on TV, but that sure is what it sounds like.

Jim

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Seems to my unlettered mind that section 13 above exonerates pleasure vessels of less than 24 meters tonnage length (whatever that means) from the requirement for AUSTRALIAN registration.

The practice and experience reported in several posts seems to support this interpretation. I'm not an Admiralty Lawyer, and might not recognize one if I saw him on TV, but that sure is what it sounds like.

Jim

Over that and they would be of interest to AMSA due to survey and class issues.... below that I am sure AMSA really does not want to be involved... they have enough work.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Seems to my unlettered mind that section 13 above exonerates pleasure vessels of less than 24 meters tonnage length (whatever that means) from the requirement for AUSTRALIAN registration.

The practice and experience reported in several posts seems to support this interpretation. I'm not an Admiralty Lawyer, and might not recognize one if I saw him on TV, but that sure is what it sounds like.

Jim

except for this bit Jim

Ships less than 24 metres in tonnage length, Government ships, fishing vessels and pleasure craft are exempt from the requirement to be registered under section*12 but are subject to section*68 if they are unregistered ships.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Factor

except for this bit Jim

Ah but they are not unregistered ships, just not registered in Australia.