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Old 09-01-2012, 02:38   #1
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Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

Greetings All,

I have recently made my first serious boating commitment by buying a 1986 Adams 45 Masthead Cutter. I now need some fundamental advice regarding insurance.
(1) Do some/most owners of vessels older than 25 years choose to have no insurance?...simply wearing the risk?
(2) I am having a range of repairs carried out in response to the survey. Indeed addressing 95% of the issues. I may not replace he standing rigging.
Will I get it insured?
(3) Anyone have a similar vessel?...and can advise on premium cost?

Thanks!

Aussie Monty
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:47   #2
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

Hi Monty


Congrats on the new boat, Adams is a great designer, lots of home made so listen to your surveyor but at 20 odd years she will probably stand up to it.

so far as insurance, any aussie insurer will want a survey of boat and rigging and maybe engine at that age, it is routine.

If you dont do the rigging they will insure you, minus any rig issue.

If you can afford to have your boat and its value sink to the bottom of the ocean and become the next man made reef, i.e lose the lot, then consider third party only, but even then they will probably want the rig up to scratch as they have a habit of hurting people when they fall down.

Anyway,:-)just my two cents, speak to a broker like Nautilus, Club Marine, and get the real facts. let us know what you find out and most importantly, enjoy your new boat.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:22   #3
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

It's about how much risk you're happy with, or can afford to pay someone else to carry.

It sounds like you're planning on keeping the boat for quite a while so why not find the extra and do the rigging as well, even if you only get third party. You've paid for the survey and done everything else.

When you get caught by a strong gust with all sail up you'll bless every cent.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:37   #4
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Thanks guys,

It sounds like I should go all the way and do the rigging. Can anyone "ball park" me on cost to replace?...also can anyone give me rough idea what the insurance cold cost me?

Again I have no real idea....thinking insurance was going to be around $1500 Aud...yet other advice was towards $7k!

Cheers.

Aussie Monty
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:59   #5
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

Something to consider is that some marinas wont let you in unless you can produce an insurance certificate.
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Old 09-01-2012, 15:44   #6
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

We are insured (36' steel) not because of damage risk to the boat, but because of the amount of damage we could do to to some of the eggshells floating round us. Also, if you have a guest on board, and that person is seriously injured, they will have no option but to sue you and that will spoil your day.
We shop around but are with GIO at the moment and happy.
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Old 09-01-2012, 16:10   #7
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

I've always found Club Marine to be very competitive when compared with the others (Triton, Nautilus). You need to use the specialist boat/yacht insurers as they are better equipped to deal with claims.
I recently bought a UFO 34, upgrading from a Spacesailer 22. For hulls over 20 yrs old, CM want a survey report, which costs $3-400. They also want to know that the rigging is in good order, and I had a survey done by a rigging specialist for $120. However, I (and the surveyor) had no firm dates for when the stays were last replaced, and the insurers are looking for replacement every 7-10 yrs. I did get insured after all of that, but I have to question the value of these surveys - they must only weed out the really obviously poor condition boats.

I went for a sail on a friends 34' yacht in November and the mast came down in 20Knt winds, the wire parting company within the swage, which is an impossible place to visually see whats going on. I believe the quote to repair/replace the mast is $30k and will take 6 months. Luck it happened on the river on 5 minutes into the race - I wouldn't like that to happen at sea, just me and the family aboard, or a long way from assistance.

Consequently, I have decided to replace all my stays. Mine is a double spreader 12m mast, and I've spent about $250 - 300 on replacing each of the stays - say total cost $2500 - $3000, but this is by me taking them down and putting them back up. I'm looking at it as peace of mind and 'insurance'.

In WA, you won't get your boat into a marina / club or over to Rottnest island without having insurance, so it's a no brainer in my view to pay the money and sleep well at night. The value of the boat may not be 'significant', but the cost to repair some damage will be (relatively speaking).

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Old 09-01-2012, 21:06   #8
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Monty View Post
Greetings All,

I have recently made my first serious boating commitment by buying a 1986 Adams 45 Masthead Cutter. I now need some fundamental advice regarding insurance.
(1) Do some/most owners of vessels older than 25 years choose to have no insurance?...simply wearing the risk?
(2) I am having a range of repairs carried out in response to the survey. Indeed addressing 95% of the issues. I may not replace he standing rigging.
Will I get it insured?
(3) Anyone have a similar vessel?...and can advise on premium cost?

Thanks!

Aussie Monty
AM,

1) The decision to have insurance is a personal one. It depends on whether the boat is seaworthy for its intended purpose as judged by survey and experience, and whether it's the entirety of your worldly goods in one hull. Say it explodes this evening: could you bear the total loss? What if it explodes and kills someone having a sundowner on the next dock or moor?

Some people get liability insurance to guard against what their boat might do to others, either due to negligence of the skipper/crew or accident (like your mooring/anchor failing in a storm and your steel boat cuts a mere plastic boat in half). So maybe you want this. You sink it on a reef, you get nothing. You crush another boat, you get nothing. But thanks to liability insurance, they don't come after you for your land-based home or your savings in a civil suit because you can't tie a knot or something.

2) I'm unsure what you are asking. Insurance the repairs? As for the rigging, if you are in salt water and the rigging is 25 years old, replace it. If it's still got life, it'll make fine spares. Rub it with anti-corrosive spray and pack it low in the boat (or maybe one upper, one lower and a forestay). If you plan on going even a mile over the horizon, you want the rigging (including pins and tangs and assorted bits) entirely refreshed.

3) I have a steel 41-footer. It's on land for a big restoration/preparation for offshore. The insurance here in Canada on it is about $1060/year. When it was in Lake Ontario (fresh water, and only sporadically stormy), I paid $1,400/year. But the season here is, at best, eight months, and is often shorter. Offshore, with full coverage (which can include insurance that covers the cost of a flight from God knows where to a hospital in Oz), and the infamous "everything costs twice as much in Australia", and you could pay four to five times that, easily. Ask around. Australia's full of offshore sailors, some of whom spend half the year there to pay for the other half away.

Seriously, that rigging is suspect due to time. Remove it to the spares locker and hope to never use it.
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Old 09-01-2012, 22:49   #9
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

I had a quote for around $4k for new rigging on Boracay. Insurance is about $900 on $50k.

When I do the rigging there's a whole lot of other jobs to be done. Roller furling, VHF antenna and coax, spreader halyards, radar mount, steaming light guard, new running rigging, recut genoa so I'm putting off the evil day for as long as possible.

The rigging looks good but it's over 10 years so I'm running on borrowed time.

The only thing I wonder about with rigging is that the insurance companies have experience with racing boats that use their rigging to the max frequently. I wonder if a cruising boat that sits on a mooring is the same sort of risk.
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Old 10-01-2012, 00:18   #10
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Monty View Post
Thanks guys,

It sounds like I should go all the way and do the rigging. Can anyone "ball park" me on cost to replace?...also can anyone give me rough idea what the insurance cold cost me?

Again I have no real idea....thinking insurance was going to be around $1500 Aud...yet other advice was towards $7k!

Cheers.

Aussie Monty
Hi Monty I had a rigger replace all the standing rig, refasten the foils on the furler and replace the topping lift and main halyard for $4000.00. Supply and fit ! Money well spent I felt.
My boat is a 32 ft fisher and I pay around $1300.00 for $150,000 insurance, a little under what Club Marine charge.
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Old 10-01-2012, 00:56   #11
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

Just curiosity on my part, is she (was she) called "Chenanigan"....?
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:40   #12
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Thanks for the sage advice...as I am sure everyone can see that collective wisdom, thought and opinion is invaluable information. Thank god most of us still believe in sharing information. I hope to be able to contribute back soon!...maybe details of this first time project.

...yes, she is Chenaningan...do you know her?

Monty
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:02   #13
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Monty View Post
...yes, she is Chenaningan...do you know her?

Monty
Not personally, but she sounds like a good canvas to start with...
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:00   #14
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

I use IBG insurance my 31ft is an 87 model they have it insured with lioyds with No survey required due to the yacht squadron backing me saying what condition she is in
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:20   #15
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Re: Aussie Insurance - Adams 45 Steel Cutter

My early '80s 32 footer is with Club Marine at just over $700 per year for $50K coverage with no racing.

I had to do the insurance survey this year. Note that you do not need a licensed surveyor to do the inspection, despite the fact that their website says you do as well as the letter they send. They will accept a shipwright. They have a checklist to download for him to complete and sign.

I also checked with Nautilus and they accept the same, but were about 50% dearer.
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