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Old 18-04-2014, 10:51   #256
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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i hope i dont offend anyone here, but i can assure you in under 5 knots of wind you'll be bobbing around like a log in most of those boats.

Sorry if ive offended any over emotional sailors
Lol! i can assure you that under 5 knots of wind even a fin keel light displacement its a log in the ocean.....
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:01   #257
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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i hope i dont offend anyone here, but i can assure you in under 5 knots of wind you'll be bobbing around like a log in most of those boats.

Sorry if ive offended any over emotional sailors

Under 5 knots wind all cruising boats are really just bobbing along!
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:03   #258
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Lol! i can assure you that under 5 knots of wind even a fin keel light displacement its a log in the ocean.....
By log i meant water speed, but yeah i agree wouldnt be going too far LOL
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:04   #259
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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overall the reason you don't see as many full keel boats in production is that they cost more to build. they use more materials for less volume and most marketing is based on how big she is down below
If that was true you would see a small percentage of very expensive full keel, specially one offs being built. The only full keels one offs you see being built are based on very cheap very old plans and built by the owner in a very cheap way. Quite the opposite of an expensive boat.

But you are right in saying that heavy or medium height boats are more expensive to built than average light cruisers even if not more expensive than very light strong cruisers made with more expensive materials.

Note that there are many good old heavy full keel boats but the reason they are not built anymore is because it is possible to make an equally strong middle weight boat with similar sea motion but with better sailing characteristics using a fin keel.

I agree with you that those medium weigh boats are necessarily more expensive than the typical main market boat. There are even some slightly old fashioned for the ones that want a more "traditional" boat but not even those have full keels.

I bet that you would like these:

Rustler 44

or these:

Saiboats, Motorsailers, Pilot Sailboats, Shoalsailers built by Shannon

They are not the top of the crop in what regards design efficiency but neither use full keels (and they are quite expensive).

For a more modern approach you can look at these:

Oyster Yachts | Luxury Yacht Builder | Brokerage | Yachts for Sale | Charter | World Rally
Luxury Yacht Builder | Sailing Yachts For Sale | Luxury Sailing Yachts
AMEL - AMEL Yard

They are all medium weight boats and all very expensive but again, no full keel because it is not a question of money but a question of design efficiency. Form versus function.
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:19   #260
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Under 5 knots wind all cruising boats are really just bobbing along!
I can assure you that I am not bobbing along with 5K unless you call sailing at 5K or more bobbing around. Only deep downwind (over 135) the speed is less. With 5K upwind I can make wind and the apparent wind is just about 8K. With 4 I am going slower but sill moving quite well. I only turn the engine if I have less than 2K (real) and only if I really have to go somewhere in a hurry.

That's one of the reasons I choose my type of boat: I like to sail and hate motoring. The winds on the med are many times weak, not properly the trade winds, except on some few places like the Aegean.
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:26   #261
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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I can assure you that I am not bobbing along with 5K unless you call sailing at 5K or more bobbing around. Only deep downwind (over 135) the speed is less. With 5K upwind I can make wind and the apparent wind is just about 8K.

That's one of the reasons I choose my type of boat: I like to sail and hate motoring. The winds on the med are many times weak, not properly the trade winds, except on some few places like the Aegean.

Ya my dads old trimaran would be doing wind speed pretty easily. What design of boat do you sail?
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:45   #262
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

So... I own a William Garden Mariner 40 with a full keel, traditional design. One thing I like about it is the balance and tracking ability. You can set a course and just let go of the steering (or lash it off) and will sail straight for hours. Good for sleeping when single-handed sailing

Another reason why I like the full keel is sailing around islands and reefs. I don't have to worry so much if I hit the bottom, and I can also stand it on its keel on a low tide.

On the other hand, it is not a very fast sailor, although I have had it running 6-7 knots consistently which is not to shabby

But mostly the reason why I own old full keel boats is they are very inexpensive to pick up and I have the ability to fix them easily. If I had the money I would go for a modern hull that has a bulb keel, with classic lines. The newly built Schooner Yacht America 2 is a good example. Hummm sounds like the next project hahaha
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:53   #263
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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So... I own a William Garden Mariner 40 with a full keel, traditional design. One thing I like about it is the balance and tracking ability. You can set a course and just let go of the steering (or lash it off) and will sail straight for hours. Good for sleeping when single-handed sailing

Another reason why I like the full keel is sailing around islands and reefs. I don't have to worry so much if I hit the bottom, and I can also stand it on its keel on a low tide.

On the other hand, it is not a very fast sailor, although I have had it running 6-7 knots consistently which is not to shabby

But mostly the reason why I own old full keel boats is they are very inexpensive to pick up and I have the ability to fix them easily. If I had the money I would go for a modern hull that has a bulb keel, with classic lines. The newly built Schooner Yacht America 2 is a good example. Hummm sounds like the next project hahaha
Wow i wish my dads trimaran would stay on course, lol at 36ft with a fin keel he needs to have his hand on the tiller at all times, its not much of a good cruiser, but his argument is that it has a 10 knot cruising speed, cant beat that with a stick , but then again im pretty sure the whole boat only weighs like 2000lbs LOL
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:56   #264
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Ya my dads old trimaran would be doing wind speed pretty easily. What design of boat do you sail?
A Comet 41s but any modern performance cruiser (a true one) would be doing the same.

Some few years ago I test sailed a new Salona 38 with a good set of sails. There was practically no wind, just the lightest shore thermal air. We where 4 on the boat, the girl from the factory (a racer), an Italian regatta sailor me and an another Italian sailor, a girl. The Italian girl was pissed because we could all sail the boat doing about 2.5K but when she picked the wheel the boat stopped

We try to explain that she needed to make wind to sail and as the light air was orographic it was changing direction all the time so she had to permanently adjust the boat otherwise she would miss miss the very light air, would not be able to make wind and the boat would stop. She preferred to think that the wind just went away every time she picked the wheel.
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Old 18-04-2014, 11:59   #265
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by leightonyachts View Post
So... I own a William Garden Mariner 40 with a full keel, traditional design. One thing I like about it is the balance and tracking ability. You can set a course and just let go of the steering (or lash it off) and will sail straight for hours. Good for sleeping when single-handed sailing

Another reason why I like the full keel is sailing around islands and reefs. I don't have to worry so much if I hit the bottom, and I can also stand it on its keel on a low tide.

On the other hand, it is not a very fast sailor, although I have had it running 6-7 knots consistently which is not to shabby

But mostly the reason why I own old full keel boats is they are very inexpensive to pick up and I have the ability to fix them easily. If I had the money I would go for a modern hull that has a bulb keel, with classic lines. The newly built Schooner Yacht America 2 is a good example. Hummm sounds like the next project hahaha
Sounds right to me...and that boat too
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Old 18-04-2014, 12:00   #266
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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A Comet 41s but any modern performance cruiser (a true one) would be doing the same.

Some few years ago I test sailed a new Salona 38 with a good set of sails. There was practically no wind, just the lightest shore thermal light air. We where 4 on the boat, the girl from the factory (a racer), an Italian regatta sailor me and an another Italian sailor, a girl. The Italian girl was pissed because we could all sail the boat doing about 2.5K but when she picked the wheel the boat stopped

We try to explain that she needed to make wind to sail and as the light air was orographic it was changing direction all the time so she had to permanently adjust the boat otherwise she would miss miss the very light air, would not be able to make wind and the boat would stop. She preferred to think that the wind just went away every time she picked the wheel.
Definitely a nice boat you got there,
Good story got a kick out of that LOL
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Old 18-04-2014, 12:35   #267
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by youngson View Post
i hope i dont offend anyone here, but i can assure you in under 5 knots of wind you'll be bobbing around like a log in most of those boats.

Sorry if ive offended any over emotional sailors
It depends as much on SA/D as displacement or keel type. A few of those boats, such as the Tayana, sport an SA/D of about 17, which makes a difference in light air.
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Old 18-04-2014, 13:05   #268
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

True. I have a Westsail 43 with the tall rig and SA/D = 17. It does fine in lighter air once you get it moving and the heavy displacement and full keel tend to carry the momentum so as long as it is sailed well it does OK. No race boat in light air or around buoys but not stagnant either. Anyways I just turn the motor on which even most of the cruising cats do when the air is too light. Mostly because I don't want the rigging banging around which is bad for the boat or I put prevents or guys on to stabilize the rig.
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Old 19-04-2014, 11:38   #269
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

There is a rare westsail 39 for sale @ 75k. Bob Perry designed.

Looks good in picks. Would be more sprightly than a full keeler but cruisable on a budget boat.

1981 Westsail 39 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 20-04-2014, 04:17   #270
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

I have a Acapulco 40 for sale at yacht world, solid sailor with professionally engineered modified keel to put safe, solid, secure cruiser with speed. Look up Acapulco 40 to learn how great this live aboard cruiser has performed.
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