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Old 02-04-2014, 17:32   #241
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I give up! Last post on this. What stops roll movements and prevents them to happen is initial stability. Most initial stability comes from hull form stability. Hull form stability increases exponentially with beam.
Paulo you have changed your theories on this quite a bit. You used to say that the more modern, wider beam boats had better motion comfort than the older deeper v type designs. Do we need Bob Perry to straighten you out again?
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Old 02-04-2014, 18:41   #242
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Paulo you have changed your theories on this quite a bit. You used to say that the more modern, wider beam boats had better motion comfort than the older deeper v type designs. Do we need Bob Perry to straighten you out again?
Quite disagreeable and insulting your tone and certainly you don't know what you are talking about. This is a nice forum and certainly I am not looking for a confrontation. Are you sure you are on the right forum? For confrontations and that juvenile type of attitude the right place is sailing Anarchy.

The motion of both types of hulls have the characteristics that I had mentioned. As I had said some prefer the sharper and less wide movements of a modern light beamy boat and its lesser heel others prefer the bigger amplitude movements of an older narrower heavier boat, regarding pitch, roll and sailing with more heel.

Some get seasick with both types of movements, some get more seasick with one, others with the other and some don't get seasick with neither.

The preference for each type of movement is a personal choice. I don't mind with neither of them, I don't get seasick but I prefer to sail faster and have fun while doing it. Again a personal choice.

That is not dificult to understand.
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Old 02-04-2014, 21:48   #243
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Quite disagreeable and insulting your tone and certainly you don't know what you are talking about. This is a nice forum and certainly I am not looking for a confrontation. Are you sure you are on the right forum? For confrontations and that juvenile type of attitude the right place is sailing Anarchy.

The motion of both types of hulls have the characteristics that I had mentioned. As I had said some prefer the sharper and less wide movements of a modern light beamy boat and its lesser heel others prefer the bigger amplitude movements of an older narrower heavier boat, regarding pitch, roll and sailing with more heel.

Some get seasick with both types of movements, some get more seasick with one, others with the other and some don't get seasick with neither.

The preference for each type of movement is a personal choice. I don't mind with neither of them, I don't get seasick but I prefer to sail faster and have fun while doing it. Again a personal choice.

That is not dificult to understand.
Sorry, forgot the smiley
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:46   #244
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

For those interested in roll period

Tn=1.108*k/sqrt(GM)
where
Tn=roll period
k=gyradius (of mass)
GM=metacentric height

BR Teddy

ps. metric formula
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:52   #245
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
For those interested in roll period

Tn=1.108*k/sqrt(GM)
where
Tn=roll period
k=gyradius (of mass)
GM=metacentric height

BR Teddy

ps. metric formula
Maybe you can explain how this remotely relates to the OP's question regarding: "Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard" ?
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:58   #246
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Please forgive me in advance, don't take the wrong way because I certainly do not want to be rude, but.... I am wondering if maybe there should be a separate thread started for those of you who want to continue ad infinitum discussing the engineering aspects of hull design. This poor guy just wanted a recommendation on a nice full keeled cruising boat. There may be others (me for one) who are still following the thread hoping something of that nature might actually pop up too. But mostly now we're seeing equations that I am sure the vast majority of us don't understand and could care less about.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:09   #247
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

[QUOTE=oldragbaggers;1508446]Please forgive me in advance, don't take the wrong way because I certainly do not want to be rude, but.... I am wondering if maybe there should be a separate thread started for those of you who want to continue ad infinitum discussing the engineering aspects of hull design. This poor guy just wanted a recommendation on a nice full keeled cruising boat. There may be others (me for one) who are still following the thread hoping something of that nature might actually pop up too. But mostly now we're seeing equations that I am sure the vast majority of us don't understand and could care less about.[/QUOTEDitt

Ditto, I used to cut math class to go sailing.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:25   #248
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Maybe you can explain how this remotely relates to the OP's question regarding: "Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard" ?
That full keel blue water cruisers are more comfortable than modern beamy ones
And relax, no more math from me..
BR Teddy
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:08   #249
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

"A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard"

Well we are a family with two teenage kids living comfortably our Hudson Force 50.
You too can pick one of these baby's up for 1/4 the cost of a new Bene 50ft Sense and get plenty of excercise in tracking down the leaks...ha ha ha.

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Old 04-04-2014, 15:01   #250
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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"A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard"

Well we are a family with two teenage kids living comfortably our Hudson Force 50.
You too can pick one of these baby's up for 1/4 the cost of a new Bene 50ft Sense and get plenty of excercise in tracking down the leaks...ha ha ha.

Sexy sheer
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Old 04-04-2014, 18:06   #251
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

G'day Mates. It may be a little longer and a bit out of the OP's price range, but the Mason 53 is an excellent 3/4 keel, live aboard CC vessel. Been doing it for 16 years. If anyone would like specific details, feel free to send me a private message. FYI, she is also on the market for sale if anyone is looking at vessels of this nature. All the best. Cheers.
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Old 17-04-2014, 19:49   #252
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Having sailed one or two long keeled boats, and a fair number of medium to long "fin" keeled boats , I can see no appreciable difference is the "motion in a seaway" argument.

Pounding of the lightly immersed forefoot can be a problem, especially when motoring to motor sailing, much less so when under good canvas as the bow is immersed.

Having sailed lots of the "modern cruisers" I have have not seen pounding as a big issue in general. I think its thrown out as an issue, but isn't really.

The fact is folks is full keels offered any appreciable advantages, they would still be built in numbers. The design of a full keel lies directly to wooden rib and frame construction and an investigation of the RN early frigates will show how they developed.

dave
overall the reason you don't see as many full keel boats in production is that they cost more to build. they use more materials for less volume and most marketing is based on how big she is down below
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Old 18-04-2014, 09:53   #253
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

We had a Whitby 42 - heavy displacement, center cockpit, aft cabin, two heads, engine room, tons of storage (literally), very large cockpit...... It would be a wonderful live aboard and we took it from Washington state to Mexico and then to the South Pacific for two years, back and forth to the rough waters of New Zealand twice. Very seaworthy but not a great sailor - it did not go to weather well at all, but the ride was comfortable and safe. But an excellent live aboard. Same for a Tayana 42 - especially the center cockpit model. Of course, many sailors are entirely happy with 37's and up too. Even 32's but that amazes me. People I know who had a 36 would not go that small again for long periods out.
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Old 18-04-2014, 10:40   #254
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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s/v Jedi, I don't worry to much about the fin keel, I am sold on displacement however. I do worry about an unprotected rudder. Has that consideration ever concerned you?

To answer your question I've been looking at, in no particular order:

Allied Mistress 39'
Westsail 42'
Hans Christian 38T
Lord Nelson 41'
Tayana 38'
Morgan 383
Pearson 424
Cape George (can't find many)
Dickerson 40'
Bristol 39/40(too narrow)

i hope i dont offend anyone here, but i can assure you in under 5 knots of wind you'll be bobbing around like a log in most of those boats.

Sorry if ive offended any over emotional sailors
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Old 18-04-2014, 10:48   #255
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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i hope i dont offend anyone here, but i can assure you in under 5 knots of wind you'll be bobbing around like a log in most of those boats.

Sorry if ive offended any over emotional sailors
I can verify this for the HC38! But at any less than 3.5 or 4 knots thru the water I become a motor boat anyway...
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