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Old 09-09-2011, 17:35   #1
tpm
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V-Hull or Flat Hull ?

On Lake Erie, are there more light air days than better sailing winds?
It's seems risky to buy a boat without sailing a water first. But I'm 61 and not thinking of buying a dingy before I get a boat. I'd like to learn safe family cruising. I like winches and traveller at helm. Sail 4 and sleep two is enough.

Deeper Ved hulls for stability vs flatter hulls for speed; I don't know which to go after. Are there more heavier air days for those who like to sail reefed, or more light air days to consider?
Thanks,
Tim
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Old 13-09-2011, 12:05   #2
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Re: V-Hull or Flat Hull ?

I would give you a solid it depends on the year. This year we've had a mix of a lot of wind 20-25+kts or better or under 5kts. Do you like to scream along with the rail in the water or sail just for the pleasure of it? Last year we had a lot of moderate wind. Who knows where next year will be. I'd try to find a moderate design and enjoy the days that fits your sailing preferences.
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Old 13-09-2011, 19:56   #3
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Re: V-Hull or Flat Hull ?

I'm trying to decide if three weeks of sailing lessons is enough to buy a first boat. Then I'd continue taking lessons on that boat until I'm good to go. So a stiff and sea kindly cruiser is what I'm looking for. Safe family cruising; not racing.
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Old 14-09-2011, 00:16   #4
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Originally Posted by tpm
I'm trying to decide if three weeks of sailing lessons is enough to buy a first boat. Then I'd continue taking lessons on that boat until I'm good to go. So a stiff and sea kindly cruiser is what I'm looking for. Safe family cruising; not racing.
If you can dock, reef, start the motor and drop your sails hen I'd say go for it. Go out early and ALWAYS check your forecast. Expect that to be wrong 50% of the time. Watch he sky and monitor channel 16 and weather channel on the VHF. If you experiment make sure you have plenty of room to correct it should it teach you a lesson. What size are you considering?
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Old 18-09-2011, 18:06   #5
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Re: V-Hull or Flat Hull ?

I'd like to find a stiff cruiser under 31' with the traveller back by the helm. I'd like to be able to solo sail. Sail 4 and sleep 2 is enough. Cruising only, no racing. Most often used for day sailing around Cleveland. Hopefully within a few years, sailing to islands around western end of lake, or 70 miles across the lake to Rhondea Bay Canada.

Budget around 40. Wish list is: Uncluttered deck, all lines led aft. Main sheet and powerful self tailing winches within easy reach of helm. Well designed, easy to use, reefing system. Boom high enough for bimini. Good visibility to leeward under head sail, and all around visibility from the cockpit. High enough freeboard aft that it's not a wet sail to windward. Not much use of interior hull liners, good access to plumbing runs, electrical systems, and all areas of hull.
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Old 18-09-2011, 18:13   #6
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Re: V-Hull or Flat Hull ?

Take a look at a Tartan 30, Should be plenty of them around your area since they were built in Ohio.

They have a good combination of deep ballast and a well rounded hull with a wide beam. Plenty of stability for what you're looking for, plenty of room for what you want, and everything else...

I've seen the lake when it's a little 'choppy' a "flat" hull would not be fun. but most 'regular' sailboats will handle it just fine. anything from a hunter to an alberg. But unless you only sail on nice days (or get beat up), I'd stay away from the 'racing' hulls, like the Olson's and similar boats.
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Old 18-09-2011, 18:56   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpm
I'd like to find a stiff cruiser under 31' with the traveller back by the helm. I'd like to be able to solo sail. Sail 4 and sleep 2 is enough. Cruising only, no racing. Most often used for day sailing around Cleveland. Hopefully within a few years, sailing to islands around western end of lake, or 70 miles across the lake to Rhondea Bay Canada.

Budget around 40. Wish list is: Uncluttered deck, all lines led aft. Main sheet and powerful self tailing winches within easy reach of helm. Well designed, easy to use, reefing system. Boom high enough for bimini. Good visibility to leeward under head sail, and all around visibility from the cockpit. High enough freeboard aft that it's not a wet sail to windward. Not much use of interior hull liners, good access to plumbing runs, electrical systems, and all areas of hull.
I would look at a Tartan or C&C. A couple at our club bought a Tartan 31 this year and it is a beautiful boat. Both brands are local to the area and are plentiful. Stay clear of Tartan 10s as they are flogged on the race course. A Pearson 30ish is another nice stable boat. A S2 9.2 is a nice boat too and were built in Michigan. (biased!).

The V shaped hulls will probably want to heel more that the flatter champagne glass type hull. My DH doesn't care for heeling so we went for the flatter bottom. Our S2 is happy with 10-15 degrees vs our old boat which needed a solid 20+ for the waterline.

Thoughts knowing more details- on draft I would stay at or below 5'6" fixed keel or a centerboard. ( I am not a fan after watching friends of our ground and take on obscene amounts of water. We got them into the lift before anything happened but finding shallows on Erie is not hard especially around freighter traffic and decent sized rivers. The islands are getting shallow and west it gets very shallow. Harbors get squeamish at 6'. I prefer an encapsulated keel over bolted on and lead vs iron. Personal preferences of mine. You probably want a displacement in the 10k-12k+/-. I'd also recommend a jib/genoa furler. I just went through a similar search just a little larger. I'd try to avoid boats that are/were raced hard.

I would suggest looking around Huron and Ontario in addition to Erie. Both easily brought down with a good delivery skipper. (I know a couple.). Or into Lake Michigan if you don't mind trucking it down. Ubid.com shows old bids if you search for a similar boat.

A survey is a must! My first thought reading your wish list is a Tartan 31. The interior hull liners are largely a personal preference. They do help on condensation but can also breed mold. I run a dehumidifier when away from the boat just to keep the stickiness down.

Let me know if you need any help. We just bought our boat a few weeks ago. Also put Port Stanley on your list of places to visit. :-)

Fair winds, SC
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:59   #8
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Re: V-Hull or Flat Hull ?

Thanks callmecrazy and sailcruiser,
I must have set something wrong in my notifications; I never got an email of your responses. Glad I logged in today and saw them.

callmecrazy-- I like the Tartan 30, it looks like it would be easy to singlehand: the traveller is behind the helm and the primaries are next to the wheel. That's an unusual design with the engine amidships. But maybe that will help reduce hobbyhorsing in a chop. I see some that have replaced the Atomic 4 with a Yanmar. Is the engine noise an issue?

sailcruiser-- I also like the Tartan 31 because it's a newer model, and it has a nav station. i can always move the traveller aft of the helm, if that's a big deal for singlehandling. And I like the optional self tacking jib.

I'm starting to talk with a surveyor in the Mentor area for his thoughts on what to keep in mind before selecting one or two models to consider.
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Old 10-10-2011, 19:36   #9
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Re: V-Hull or Flat Hull ?

I've been singlehanding my t30 pretty well without any modifications at all. It's a completely original boat... They did make a few of them with a Universal Diesel, but yes, many have repowered with yanmars. The midship engine is nice, the water and fuel tanks, and battery box, are also midship, in the cabin. Can't possibly get any better access for working on the motor. The entire boat was designed with this in mind, so yes, it greatly reduces hobbyhorsing, it's a very seakindly boat, and also very stable with it's 10' beam. I have an Atomic 4 in mine, I don't mind it at all but the fuel consumption is a little higher than a diesel.
The downside is, you lose some of the best storage space. You there's no storage under the setee's. But there is alot of storage in the quarterberth area, and everywhere else to compensate. I live on my boat full time and still have a few empty lockers... The aft-galley version is the only one to get. If you can find an Aft-galley, with a diesel motor, in good conditoin, for around 15K you'd be doing pretty good.

The tartan 31 is newer, and more expensive. probably a much nicer boat all around, but it's not an S&S design
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