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Old 21-02-2007, 19:46   #31
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Firefox is great! I use it as well. the problem is that I took the pictures off of the hosting website i had them uploaded on. so the links are broken.
sorry mate.
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Old 21-02-2007, 20:06   #32
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Had the same problem. A web search will get you a bunch of sites showing the pics. Here's one... Midwest Scuba Diving - Thread Posts
(Love my FireFox!)
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Old 10-03-2007, 14:47   #33
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Grew up sailing on the Atlantic, and then moved up to Ontario and sail on the Great Lakes now. I don't think that the swells/waves on the Great Lakes reach the size that they do on the ocean. This is not to diminish the severity of the storms on the lakes, but they just don't have the volume of water and huge open spaces to build to the same extent as they do in the open seas.

I think that the biggest difference is the speed at which the sea-state changes. It takes many hours for the storms to build on the ocean, not so long here. Fog comes in there a lot - more frequently than in Ontario, but not as quickly. Here it can happen in as little as a half hour, and the wind changes much more quickly, both velocity and direction.

When I first moved up here I was astonished to find that what we considered a fresh breeze was reason for a lot of Lake sailors to remain tied up at the slip - they tended to think I was nuts to go out in a "gale". However, a lot of the boats here are not designed or built to handle much weather. Huge difference in the level of maintenance too - still can't get used to that. Find that people (in Ontario at least) look their boats over when they buy them, fix the most egregious problems, and then forget about them until the thing starts sinking underneath them

Do that when you're sailing on the ocean, and you won't be coming home.
So it can be a bit more challenging to sail here in that you no sooner finish reefing, than it's time to shake the sails out again. And there are thunderstorms that happen rarely on the coast, but actual sea states don't get quite as bad as the larger bodies of water.

Regarding the incidence of loss and wrecks, would hazard a guess that they might happen more on the sea, simply beacuse there are so many more ships out there. If that kind of thing is interesting, then a Google on Sable Island "the graveyard of the Atlantic" will turn up some terrible tales of ships gone down and lives wasted.

I have noticed that the lake freighters have about half of the freeboard of the ocean ships - that might have something to do with them going down. And certainly the shorter wavelength would be an issue...
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:24   #34
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When I first moved up here I was astonished to find that what we considered a fresh breeze was reason for a lot of Lake sailors to remain tied up at the slip - they tended to think I was nuts to go out in a "gale". However, a lot of the boats here are not designed or built to handle much weather. Huge difference in the level of maintenance too - still can't get used to that. Find that people (in Ontario at least) look their boats over when they buy them, fix the most egregious problems, and then forget about them until the thing starts sinking underneath them
Being an Ontario sailor, I can say that we take very good care of our boats, and inspect them thoroughly before splash day. Maybe because we do it all in a few weekends, you get the impression that we don't care. Our sailing season is short, and there are few good weekends to get the boat ready. Not having them fully waxed and the teak all looking sharp is not as important to us as the rigging, and the hull condition. We're only in the fresh cold water for 5 months, so how much work do you think we have to do? As far as not going out in the big blow, because our boats can't handle it, well that's a load of crap. We have the same boats as everyone else. I don't recall ads for boats that are just "lake sailors", and not meant for the ocean. We know when to go out, and when it's just plain stupid to do so. Ted Turner got the crap scared out of him in the Mackinaw race, and said he'll never put down lake sailors. The J24 NA's lost a couple boats off Rochester a couple yr's back. These were all racers, in "ain't so bad" conditions. People underestimate the wave period, and it gets them in trouble.
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Old 03-02-2008, 13:00   #35
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Originally Posted by Sailormann View Post
I don't think that the swells/waves on the Great Lakes reach the size that they do on the ocean. ..
I think that the biggest difference is the speed at which the sea-state changes. It takes many hours for the storms to build on the ocean, not so long here.
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Originally Posted by Sailormann View Post

However, a lot of the boats here are not designed or built to handle much weather.

Huge difference in the level of maintenance too - still can't get used to that. Find that people (in Ontario at least) look their boats over when they buy them, fix the most egregious problems, and then forget about them until the thing starts sinking underneath them...
Do that when you're sailing on the ocean, and you won't be coming home.


So it can be a bit more challenging to sail here in that you no sooner finish reefing, than it's time to shake the sails out again. And there are thunderstorms that happen rarely on the coast, but actual sea states don't get quite as bad as the larger bodies of water...


Having grown up on freshwater, then moved to salt, I found the Great Lakes version of heavy weather (excluding hurricanes) to be more difficult than the salt-water version. Whilst the ocean waves (& swells, which don’t cause much bother) can be much larger than those on the Lakes, the period is also much greater. The close and steep waves on the Lakes can be vicious. By far, the most uncomfortable passage I ever made, was crossing Lake Erie, with it’s confused 6-foot ankle biters. They were absolutely square, and seemed to come from every direction, at once.

As PJBsailing indicated, “We have the same boats as everyone else”. In my view, most production boats are not designed nor built to handle much. Notwithstanding, such abominations [J], and their sometimes-incompetent crews, successfully cruise, the lakes and oceans of the world.

Worldwide, many sailors are cheap! Often, too cheap to do it right; but more often ignorant of what IS right.
I think Great Lakes sailors may be even slightly cheaper, than those I met on the briny. More to Sailorman’s point, I think there are fewer “highly-qualified” marine tradesmen on the Lakes, and the level of technical competence, and standards of “quality” are much lower on the Lakes (both owners & trades).

It’s amazing, to me, how many boaters fix (or not) the most egregious problems, and then go on to enjoy years of cruising (Lakes, Coastal, and even Offshore), and make it home. Certainly, many of them REQUIRE the services of tradesmen somewhere along the way (for which I was sometimes thankful) , but they mostly still seem to make it home.
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