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Old 08-02-2007, 16:06   #31
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xort, you never did supply any evidential references to your exclamations on the shrinking holes in the ozone layers. Where did you conjure up this misinformation?

In light of the UN report on climate, I think don't think there much reason for argument. One thing is well known and that is that the Bush administration has been broadcasting misinformation and obfuscation on this subject since they have come into power. This latest report just makes them just much less believable.
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Old 08-02-2007, 20:25   #32
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LiveScience.com - Ozone Hole Healing Gradually

That is just the first thing I found reporting the shrinking of the ozone holes. There are many reports but the source is the UN. The ozone holes are an entirely separate problem from global warming.
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Old 08-02-2007, 21:46   #33
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yotphix, thanks. A little crow once in a while never hurts anyone I guess.

I understand that this is a different issue than global warming and I'm glad that the ozone layer is "gradually" healing. However it still is a serious issue and caused by the same sort of neglect and disdain that we humans show for the biosystems of earth.
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Old 08-02-2007, 23:09   #34
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Actually, on further investigation I discovered that whether or not the ozone layer is healing is also in dispute. I found articles going back to the late 90's announcing it was on the mend, and each time they cited an ever more recent date for the biggest ever recorded size. Not sure what the most up to date thoughts on it are.
I agree wholeheartedly that it shows that neglect and disdain you mention. I also (being a terminal optimist!)believe that it is a great example of the success that education, understanding, good science and good intentions can achieve. We changeed the rules about cfc's Just as victorian London banned coal hearths, and the epa introduced new rules for woodstoves that cleaned them up quite successfully, and modern cars pollute FAR less than they did just a few decades ago. (Though there are way more of them.) There have been and will continue to be lots of successful initiatives and fear is a good motivator (check out Kai's signature) so the near future looks pretty positive to me.

Plus...I don't really like winter so if it gets a little warmer for the rest of my life I'm ok with it, just as long as my nieces and nephews have something familiar to look forward to.
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Old 28-08-2007, 06:43   #35
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Lake Superior, the world's largest freshwater lake, and the primary water source for the other Great Lakes, has dropped to its lowest level in 81 years. The water is 20 inches below average and a foot lower than just a year ago.

The Great Lakes basin, which straddles the Canada-United States border, contains nearly 20% of the world's fresh (surface) water. Superior, is the largest, deepest, and coldest of the Great Lakes.
Superior's surface area is roughly the same as South Carolina's, the biggest of any freshwater lake on Earth. It's deep enough to hold all the other Great Lakes plus three additional Lake Eries.
Its average temperature has surged about 4.5 degrees Farenheit since 1979, significantly above the 2.7-degree rise in the region's air temperature during the same period.

Lake Superior has about 3 quadrillion gallons of water - enough to submerge North and South America in a foot of water.

The lake's water depth above sea level:
* Average: 601.92 feet
* Current level: 600.25 feet.
* Lowest recorded level: 599.92 feet in 1926

NOAA PROJECTS LAKE SUPERIOR MAY HIT RECORD LOW LEVELS THIS FALL
NOAA News Online (Story 2909)

”NOAA hydrologists indicate that Lake Superior is nearing record lows for the month of August, a trend that if continued could break past record lows for the months of September and October ...

... “Lake Superior is less than six centimeters higher than its August record low of 182.97 meters which was set in 1926, and it looks as though the water levels may continue to plunge," said Cynthia Sellinger, deputy director of NOAA's Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory in Ann Arbor, Mich. "NOAA's lake level forecasts predict that there is a 15 to 20 percent probability that new monthly records will be set sometime this fall."

As of August 16, 2007, the level of Lake Superior was 183.028 meters. The record low level for September is 183.06 meters set in 1926. That is also the record low level for October, which was set in 1864. Records date back to 1860.

Lake Superior, with a surface area of 31,700 square miles, is second in area only to the Caspian Sea, and is greater than the combined areas of Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New Hampshire. For every inch Lake Superior drops, 529 billion gallons of water are displaced. In the past decade, 12.7 trillion gallons of water have left Lake Superior ...

... Lake Superior’s record low of 182.69 meters was set in April 1926, the same year the lake reached an averaged annual record low of 182.90 meters as a result of a major climatic event that led to the dust bowl. Sellinger said that dramatic water level changes are generally caused by major climatic events. This includes the record high lake levels in the 1980s because of extreme rainfall, as well as the most recent drop in lake levels that were partially caused by the strong La Niņa event in 1998 that affected the jet stream through the Great Lakes area and led to extreme droughts ...


More: NOAA News Online (Story 2909)
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Old 28-08-2007, 11:54   #36
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Visited a friend on Georgian Bay this summer who I've known for 40 years, their family cottage was built by their grandfather in 1928 and we grew up as kids there. Looked at various pics of the shore line over the years and was amazed just how much water is gone. He has 400ft of dock to an island than 300ft of dock off the island to dock the boat. The old dock not shown sits on a crib 8ft from the ground The rocks that are on their shoreline for a breakwall were from blasting HWY 69 to Sudbury, it used to be 4ft - 5ft deep off them.
Here's USACE water levels stats. USACE - Detroit District - Weekly Great Lakes Water Levels

Bridge to get to island, island used to be submerged


The rocks above used to be the waterline partly covered
Below is island with approx 300ft of dock so a boat can be moored, those r 25ft cc out there



My friends now cut the weeds with a lawnmore like its the lawn, O ya did mention the Ontario Government's Municipalitys charges property taxes the same as if they were on a deep water bay where u could dive off your dock for a swim. This is outside Honey Harbor where his taxes are 7000.00 a year, I find this a joke!


Is there any hope that the water will come back?
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Old 28-08-2007, 12:50   #37
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Lake Superior levels can be somewhat controlled by the locks and spill into the St. Mary's River. When the Michigan/Huron levels were so low a couple years ago I'm sure I read somewhere that Lake Superior levels would be dropped in the future (now). I didn't take the time to research if this is indeed been a contribution.
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Old 28-08-2007, 13:58   #38
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I am finaly forced to agree with AlGore. Gullible warming is alarming.
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Old 28-08-2007, 14:00   #39
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I am

finaly forced to agree with AlGore. Gullible warming is alarming.
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Old 28-08-2007, 14:04   #40
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I am finaly forced to agree with AlGore. Gullible warming is alarming. Jesse
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Old 28-08-2007, 14:15   #41
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The thing I find most interesting about all the scientific studies and evidence relative to Global Warming is that pretty much none of the studies nor scientist indicate there is anything we can do about it.

The world is going to get warmer. Lots of things are going to change. Some want to attempt to radically change our entire way of life to prevent this yet there is zero evidence that such an effort would yield any change at all to the future.

So I suggest we all try to live as responsibly as possible as individuals and rather than worry about that which nobody can control nor change we go sailing and worry about sail trim and not running aground instead.


Terry
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Old 28-08-2007, 14:15   #42
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The thing I find most interesting about all the scientific studies and evidence relative to Global Warming is that pretty much none of the studies nor scientist indicate there is anything we can do about it.

The world is going to get warmer. Lots of things are going to change. Some want to attempt to radically change our entire way of life to prevent this yet there is zero evidence that such an effort would yield any change at all to the future.

So I suggest we all try to live as responsibly as possible as individuals and rather than worry about that which nobody can control nor change we go sailing and worry about sail trim and not running aground instead.


Terry
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Old 28-08-2007, 14:16   #43
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uhhhh i only hit the reply button once. No idea why the double posting.

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Old 28-08-2007, 21:26   #44
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Joli - 8.5 feet in Lake Erie ? incredible - and Xort - yes the sky is falling - watch out it doesn't smother you on the way down - whether manmade or not , it is paramount that we humans do what we can to try to control our part. I am baffled by the nay sayers who think this is a natural cycle so don't worry - tell me what is the down side to reducing greenhouse gases and other emissions - no down side so why is there adversity to these initiatives - the cost - sorry - have you looked at gov't waste figures lately - throw 10% of the developed worlds wasted budgets at this problem and it will be well on it's way to being solved.
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Old 28-08-2007, 21:41   #45
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When I lived in Saudi Arabia, we travelled deep into the Empty Quarter of the Arabian Peninsula where there was nothing but sand dunes for thousands of kilometers, plus petrified forests, ancient lakebeds, petrified plants, arrowheads, hand axes, and other artifacts indicating that during the ice age, the Arabian Peninsula was a tropical paradise with lions, rhinos, gazelles, antelopes and lots of people.

Interesting how this former tropical paradise is now stark desert. I guess global warming must have happened from all the campfires of all the neolithic hunter gatherers that lived there. Surely that must be the explanation for this ancient global warming. How else could such radical climate change have happened? If only Al Gore had been alive in the stone age, he could have spead his gospel and nipped global warming in the bud just when it was getting started.
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