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Old 13-03-2013, 21:50   #16
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

In regards to the OP's question, absolutely YES. The county sheriff's stop boats non-stop. The pretense is a safety check but is all, and I mean ALL, about DUI's. I've been stopped many times. Sometimes twice in the same weekend.

The upside is that almost all powerboats are captained by a designated driver. It may be someone who has absolutely now idea how to operate the boat, but their sober. It to a certain extent is out of control. If they are so set on catching drinkers, why not choose any of the 100,000 bars we have. It would be much easier, cheaper, and would save more lives.
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Old 13-03-2013, 22:27   #17
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

My theory is if you display a recovery system, don't operate erratically, and don't have a bunch of people visibly drinking, one's chances of being "pulled over" for inspection is greatly reduced.



In my waters, law enforcement always seems in a hurry to go somewhere else.
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Old 13-03-2013, 22:30   #18
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

Ahh you young folks really don't know how rough ya have it ! when I was young the ONLY folks who could board your vessel were Coasties, or FED Marshals!! Then here came the changes !! Now every cop can and will board your boat ! and even Park Rangers are cops now with guns and all that! It's not bad down the Bayou where we live, maybe cus we have just about the only sailing boat thats used down here they know who we are and just wave!! Same with the Homeland Sec Folks down here ! we call for our 1300s both leaveing and returning ! sometimes it's good to live in the deep south !!LOL
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Old 13-03-2013, 22:37   #19
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
My theory is if you display a recovery system, don't operate erratically, and don't have a bunch of people visibly drinking, one's chances of being "pulled over" for inspection is greatly reduced.

In my waters, law enforcement always seems in a hurry to go somewhere else.
Same here ... I am the one who waves to them first ...



And there is a lot of waving to be done. I boat on the USA/CAN border river and lake.
CAN: municipal police, provincial police, federal police (RCMP above), CCG, border patrol
USA: UCCG, border patrol, various DHS fast grey boats with black clad characters, etc
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Old 14-03-2013, 13:38   #20
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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Originally Posted by Mark1948 View Post
Nice to see that paranoia is alive and well. On the West shore I have not seen a problem. Boats are stopped routinely mostly for stupidity, overloaded and not sufficient life jackets, going out in small craft warnings in a 16 ft boat, speeding in restricted zones etc. Basically doing what needs to be done to keep the water safe.
Mark, if you took the time to read the initial statement, you would realize that I was talking about the eastern shore of Lake Michigan, not the western shore. I have never encountered a problem of harassment on the western shore of the lake Michigan. The CG and local marine patrols obviously have a different concept of their jobs. In fact, the Racine water patrol once helped apprehend a 50 foot Searay on autopilot that nearly hit/knocked down my 25 footer while flying a spinnaker nearly dead downwind with little room to avoid disaster. They did a great job and the man was apprehended offshore and subsequently fined. Also, your statement that "paranoia is alive and well" is a subjective assessment that has no basis in reality when shore patrols purposely target vessels operating in a safe and legal manner with the sole purpose of creating revenue for their city or state. The bottom line is that some people can be easily herded while others are protective of their rights. In our Big Brother/Government mentality we so recently affirmed, it will only get worse. Paranoid?
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Old 14-03-2013, 13:43   #21
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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Also, your statement that "paranoia is alive and well" is a subjective assessment that has no basis in reality when shore patrols purposely target vessels operating in a safe and legal manner with the sole purpose of creating revenue for their city or state.
If the revenue is the reason/purpose ... not much you can do other than complain. Either they bring dough home, or they are fired. It's happening on US roads as well ... hope the economy improves and they can stay on the side of the road/channel as they used to do.
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Old 17-03-2013, 17:54   #22
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

Reading this was great entertainment!!!! We live aboard (sailors) in Lake Michigan and have NEVER been approached by marine patrol or coast guard nor have we ever heard of this being a problem. I wonder if those responding have ever had personal experience or are they just speculating that it "sounds true" therefor it "must be true"......here to tell ya'll it's a fetch! Please don't spread rumors about one of the greatest sailing spots ever......well maybe if you do continue with the rumors, it'll keep people away and we'll have our slice of heaven to ourselves!! Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......and regarding the "concern" for Constiutional law......so many of the people who are constantly crying about it have neither read it nor do they know the meaning of it.....!!! There's a fantastic group of sailors in Lake Michigan where there are friendly harbors and many great anchorage areas....tons!
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Old 17-03-2013, 18:20   #23
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

rognvald,

"The bottom line is that some people can be easily herded while others are protective of their rights."

Truth be told, nobody on a boat has any rights. If you are living aboard and call your boat "home", thus expecting the same protections from illegal search and siezure that people living in houses enjoy, I have bad news for you. I'll let others detail why, cause I'm too lazy at the moment. No rights to protect. Sorry.

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Old 17-03-2013, 19:22   #24
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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Originally Posted by Allan S View Post
Up here in Hamilton Ontario, the police seem to concentrate on the little runabouts that are drifting and fishing. That being said, I still comply with all my safety equipment.

RabidRabbit and RicknSue, the statement "you have nothing to worry about, if your not hiding something" is very dangerous. It is a sublime way of the authorities expanding and broadening the already expansive rules and regulations that abound.
not trying to be ugly,but the KGB always told the citizens of the former Soviet Union that "if they had not done anything wrong they had nothing to worry about" and that was accepted as "good reasoning" among the general populas ,until they were hauled off to the Gulag! I dont want any bureacrat watching me for any reason ,good or bad..of course thats just me..
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Old 18-03-2013, 09:04   #25
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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Originally Posted by oscarparsons View Post
Reading this was great entertainment!!!! We live aboard (sailors) in Lake Michigan and have NEVER been approached by marine patrol or coast guard nor have we ever heard of this being a problem. I wonder if those responding have ever had personal experience or are they just speculating that it "sounds true" therefor it "must be true"......here to tell ya'll it's a fetch! Please don't spread rumors about one of the greatest sailing spots ever......well maybe if you do continue with the rumors, it'll keep people away and we'll have our slice of heaven to ourselves!! Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......and regarding the "concern" for Constiutional law......so many of the people who are constantly crying about it have neither read it nor do they know the meaning of it.....!!! There's a fantastic group of sailors in Lake Michigan where there are friendly harbors and many great anchorage areas....tons!
Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz OscarParsons, I would love to know where you are a liveaboard sailor on Lake Michigan during the Winter when all the harbors from north to south freeze solid. How do you deal with the considerable snow, ice and freezing rain? Last week, our harbormaster in southern Lake Michigan did an ice sample in the harbor. It was still 15" thick. You truly must be an exceptional sailor/soul. The statement that you have never been stopped by a marine patrol as evidence of lack of harassment on the lake is analagous to a swimmer in the ocean claiming there are no sharks since he's never been bitten by one. There is no rumor mongering going on as evidenced by several respondants in this discussion and numerous reports in local newspapers ie


Branch County Marine Patrol seasonal report upbeat - Coldwater, MI ...




www.thedailyreporter.com/article/20090912/NEWS/309129973



And, in regards to your comment intimating that I have no knowledge of constitutional law is patently absurd since you cannot have any knowledge of someone you don't know or what they might do for a living. But then again, you might have developed some remarkable clairvoyance living aboard in those sub zero temperatures that remarkably transformed your inner being to the level of a Buddhist priest or a Vedic purohita. And, I never denigrated Lake Michigan as a cruising area or its sailors. What I have said is that for those of us on the western shore of the lake there is no opportunity for anchoring unless you go 200 miles north to Sturgeon Bay or cross the lake 80 miles and encounter the potential harassment that is the subject of this discussion. Contrary opinions are always welcome in serious discussions for they allow all of us to understand the subject matter and decide for ourselves where lies logic and reason. However, emotional responses with no valid support or documentation must be viewed in a lesser light and taken for what they are and what they are not. Good luck and good sailing. And,by the way, didn't our founding fathers write the U.S. Constitution while vacationing in Bulgaria? Oh, geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, I must not be getting my facts straight.
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Old 18-03-2013, 10:00   #26
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
I have read in several boating related magazines and have heard from a few cruisers that the marine patrols in Michigan have been unduly harassing boaters entering and leaving harbors on Lake Michigan checking for registration and insurance. Is there any truth to these reports?
It reads like you are looking for actual experiences of people on Lake Michigan.

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Originally Posted by oscarparsons View Post
Reading this was great entertainment!!!! We live aboard (sailors) in Lake Michigan and have NEVER been approached by marine patrol or coast guard nor have we ever heard of this being a problem. I wonder if those responding have ever had personal experience or are they just speculating that it "sounds true" therefor it "must be true"......here to tell ya'll it's a fetch! Please don't spread rumors about one of the greatest sailing spots ever......well maybe if you do continue with the rumors, it'll keep people away and we'll have our slice of heaven to ourselves!! Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......and regarding the "concern" for Constiutional law......so many of the people who are constantly crying about it have neither read it nor do they know the meaning of it.....!!! There's a fantastic group of sailors in Lake Michigan where there are friendly harbors and many great anchorage areas....tons!
This is clearly an example of someone's personal experience with sailing on Lake Michigan. Only the second post by Oscarparsons, by the way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
...The statement that you have never been stopped by a marine patrol as evidence of lack of harassment on the lake is analagous to a swimmer in the ocean claiming there are no sharks since he's never been bitten by one. There is no rumor mongering going on as evidenced by several respondants in this discussion and numerous reports in local newspapers ie


And, in regards to your comment intimating that I have no knowledge of constitutional law is patently absurd since you cannot have any knowledge of someone you don't know or what they might do for a living. But then again, you might have developed some remarkable clairvoyance living aboard in those sub zero temperatures that remarkably transformed your inner being to the level of a Buddhist priest or a Vedic purohita. And, I never denigrated Lake Michigan as a cruising area or its sailors. What I have said is that for those of us on the western shore of the lake there is no opportunity for anchoring unless you go 200 miles north to Sturgeon Bay or cross the lake 80 miles and encounter the potential harassment that is the subject of this discussion. Contrary opinions are always welcome in serious discussions for they allow all of us to understand the subject matter and decide for ourselves where lies logic and reason. However, emotional responses with no valid support or documentation must be viewed in a lesser light and taken for what they are and what they are not. Good luck and good sailing. And,by the way, didn't our founding fathers write the U.S. Constitution while vacationing in Bulgaria? Oh, geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, I must not be getting my facts straight.
Nice response to a new member who did nothing but answer your original question. <sarcasm>

There are marinas in Michigan that have residents all year long. Not all boats are pulled over the winter. While there may be many inches of ice covering the surrounding water, measures are taken to prevent ice from forming around the boats.

We were not stopped at all last summer by any enforcement agency. The county sheriff was a regular fixture on the water. They were more often witnessed assisting boaters than stopping them for any type of inspections.

The single news article that you referenced is nearly 4 years old. It is also from Branch County which is a land-locked county at the Michigan-Indiana-Ohio border. I don't think you will be anchoring there.
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Old 18-03-2013, 11:16   #27
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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It reads like you are looking for actual experiences of people on Lake Michigan.



This is clearly an example of someone's personal experience with sailing on Lake Michigan. Only the second post by Oscarparsons, by the way.




Nice response to a new member who did nothing but answer your original question. <sarcasm>

There are marinas in Michigan that have residents all year long. Not all boats are pulled over the winter. While there may be many inches of ice covering the surrounding water, measures are taken to prevent ice from forming around the boats.

We were not stopped at all last summer by any enforcement agency. The county sheriff was a regular fixture on the water. They were more often witnessed assisting boaters than stopping them for any type of inspections.

The single news article that you referenced is nearly 4 years old. It is also from Branch County which is a land-locked county at the Michigan-Indiana-Ohio border. I don't think you will be anchoring there.


Annonymous, out of curiosity, can you name a single marina in the state of Michigan where you can keep your boat in the water year round and allows de-icers? Also, in regards to the news article, does the location inland prevent a harassment policy by the Michigan marine police on Lake Michigan contrary to their inland policy? Did you read the previous respondants remarks concerning their experiences of harassment? Did I state anywhere that I was a victim of harassment?Are you asking for a complete listing of every article on this subject? Are you a representative for the State of Michigan, a good Samaitan, or a tireless fighter for Truth, Justice and the American way? I think your internet name "Annonymous" says it all. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 18-03-2013, 11:43   #28
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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<SNIP> I believe there is a group of Americans who are completely ignorant of our Constitution and Bill of Rights and are willing to be subjected to any offense, whether legal or not, by municipal, state or the federal government. </SNIP>
...and most of them were elected last Fall.

Normally I try to keep my political opinions out but the Constitution has been seriously under attack since 9/11 and more so in the past 4 years. People wonder why I am getting a second passport and preparing to move all of my family and what little assets we have out of the US and on to some friendly third world dictatorship. My family has been on US soil since the mid 1600's, we are vacating in a few years.

As to the topic - we had a rampant issue a few years back here in MD too, now the state appears more focused on ALPR's than boaters. The MD DNR Police are usually boaters at heart. Hopefully the phase in MI will fade soon for you.
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Old 18-03-2013, 12:14   #29
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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Annonymous, out of curiosity, can you name a single marina in the state of Michigan where you can keep your boat in the water year round and allows de-icers? No. There are a couple of boats in the water in Saugatuck with de-icers.

Also, in regards to the news article, does the location inland prevent a harassment policy by the Michigan marine police on Lake Michigan contrary to their inland policy? I am not aware that Michigan has a harassment policy. Lakes in Branch County will not have a Coast Guard or DHS presence. I assume the policies of the different agencies are different.

Did you read the previous respondants remarks concerning their experiences of harassment?I read the thread. The locations most often referenced are those in close proximity to a Canadian border.

Did I state anywhere that I was a victim of harassment? No. What you did was ask for real world experience. When the responses weren't what you hoped for, you specified the east coast of Lake Michigan. Then you referenced an article referring to inland lakes.

Are you asking for a complete listing of every article on this subject? No, just a relevant one.

Are you a representative for the State of Michigan No , a good Samaitan Sometimes , or a tireless fighter for Truth, Justice and the American way? No. I think your internet name "Annonymous" says it all. I am registered as commercial member with my title and employer listed in the "about me" section here. It is actually very easy to find all of my real world information. Good luck and good sailing. Thank you.
To better answer you original question, yes, it is nearing a police state on Michigan's east coast! Marinas are often searched in the middle of the night by acronym agencies with assault weapons. Locked boats are broken into in search of contraband and impounded if any is found. It is really becoming a dangerous place to be. The only positive result is that the pirate problem is finally under control!
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Old 18-03-2013, 15:58   #30
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Re: Harrassment by marine patrols in Michigan?

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To better answer you original question, yes, it is nearing a police state on Michigan's east coast! Marinas are often searched in the middle of the night by acronym agencies with assault weapons. Locked boats are broken into in search of contraband and impounded if any is found. It is really becoming a dangerous place to be. The only positive result is that the pirate problem is finally under control!

Like lambs to the slaughter, hmmmm . . . it's amazing how the "Sheeple" conform. Good luck and good driving.
Sheep drives truck off of cliff - YouTube
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