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Old 05-01-2013, 12:16   #16
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Mass suicide is the answer, everybody that hates that mankind spoiled the earth go first.
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Old 05-01-2013, 13:03   #17
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

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Mass suicide is the answer, everybody that hates that mankind spoiled the earth go first.

All organisms in the natural world are born with a survival instinct. Because of our highly evolved brain, Humans are the only organisms capable of ethics. Ethics must be taught and are part of our cultural sharing. The difference between civilized and uncivilized people is their capacity to live ethically.
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Old 05-01-2013, 14:03   #18
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

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Interesting stuff Gord.

It really hits you in the face when you see it displayed in the multiple maps.

The map is academic. It tells you where to go to pick out the big pieces. Its a given that 99% of the pollutants come from the rivers. I remember as a kid in Michigan when research types & some private vigalantes, started at stream mouths and worked upstream, identifying and sometimes prosecuting offenders as they went. Multiple offenders drain pipes were often concreted in. It was vicious for a while. We now catch trout and salmon in our streams here and the water in most of the watershed north of M20 is quite clear to crystal clear where it enters the lakes. I fished the Chippawa as a boy and only hoped for carp. It was heavily polluted with run-off from two sugar beet processors along with sewage outfall. The last time I was by, the water was clear with flowing weeds. I watched two boys fishing much as I had only they were catching pike and bass. That is why we were so shocked at Green Bay. I assumed the other Great Lakes states had done the same. Even the Cuyahoga is vastly improved and you can see the bottom between Akron and Cleveland. The last 20 miles or so travels through national park (no farms). The old canal tow path is now a park and I counted 7 bever dams on one bike ride through the Cuyahoga valley. I would swim it anywhere.

BTW, Chicago is pretty clear right to the beach since they flush downstream through the ship canal. The towns around do and do not depending on location. My suggestion for the ship canal is a dry marine railway. Boats float in, drop onto a flat-car; gates open and the vessel travels dry to the Illinois River. This would sever the connection and aford the opportunity to clean the bilges of all transiting boats. Chicago would have to actually build sewage treatment. If I whiz off the side of my boat its a 5000 dollar fine but millions of Chicagoians can flush their %^&*$ to the Gulf. Keep your teeth together downstream. I have been told that the biggest single power user in the area is the electric barriers, close to 1/2 the total regional power consumption (so I have been told). This project could be sold on carbon reduction alone but the environmentsl impact would be huge. One local complaint to canal closure is the 300 or so jobs lost. This is BS too. A dry connection would require just as many people to operate or more.
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Old 05-01-2013, 14:39   #19
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

BTW Green Bay is not all bad. This picture was taken off Cat Island in the channel leading up to the Fox River. Yes - those are Pelicans.
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Old 05-01-2013, 19:59   #20
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This is shocking and really sad as the area is beautiful! I grew up close to Lake Erie & remember it being classified as a dead lake then them cleaning it up well enough to eat fish from there. I've been gone from there 30+ years so haven't kept up with the lakes...but never thought it would be like this. .

I agree people are the issue. We have always been the problem-but since the industrial revolution we have sped it up tremendously. We have the ability to turn it around but enough people must put pressure on he companies that pollute (and work to find those non point sources)

I love being out in nature
and hope we can have it for future generations.
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Old 05-01-2013, 20:18   #21
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

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This is shocking and really sad as the area is beautiful! I grew up close to Lake Erie & remember it being classified as a dead lake then them cleaning it up well enough to eat fish from there. I've been gone from there 30+ years so haven't kept up with the lakes...but never thought it would be like this. .

I agree people are the issue. We have always been the problem-but since the industrial revolution we have sped it up tremendously. We have the ability to turn it around but enough people must put pressure on he companies that pollute (and work to find
those non point sources). I love being out in nature and hope we can have it for future generations.
Please understand; It is not "the companies". It is every village and town flushing toilets into inadequate treratment facilities & farm field fertilizer collectively stuffing the lakes with more fertilizer than the weeds can consume. This attitude is the problem. We think we can eliminate pollution by leaning on a few point sources (already done!) while never considering where the poop goes when you pull the handle. Passing the buck is the problem. If your town doesn't have secondary and tertiary treatment you are a contributor.
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Old 05-01-2013, 20:42   #22
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its so nice to say every village and township. That is you and me. If every you and me cared we would fix this. Like wow the newest led Philips lights are excellent. Color rendition is great and they dim. When I grocery shop I want no bags. The cashier still looks surprised. Into the cart and then into a travel bag or 2 goes the produce.. Saves money in the long run.
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Old 05-01-2013, 20:56   #23
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

I don't know about the other's but Lake Michigan is as clean now as I've ever seen. It's the zebra mussles.
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Old 05-01-2013, 21:43   #24
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Please understand; It is not "the companies". It is every village and town flushing toilets into inadequate treratment facilities & farm field fertilizer collectively stuffing the lakes with more fertilizer than the weeds can consume. This attitude is the problem. We think we can eliminate pollution by leaning on a few point sources (already done!) while never considering where the poop goes when you pull the handle. Passing the buck is the problem. If your town doesn't have secondary and tertiary treatment you are a contributor.
It is the farms (many company owned now) that create run off but if we refuse to buy from those companies or buy from small farmers who are organic or responsible caretakers. We bring bags to farmer's markets and buy from farmers I know. Better food too.

My town does happen to have 2ary &3iary treatment... but towns near have "accidents" that cause sewage release. I vote for politicians (on total record including environmental) -that fine/regulate those treatment center and expect much more than a slap on the hand. It doesn't always help but I try to do my part.
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Old 06-01-2013, 15:04   #25
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

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It is the farms (many company owned now) that create run off but if we refuse to buy from those companies or buy from small farmers who are organic or responsible caretakers. We bring bags to farmer's markets and buy from farmers I know. Better food too.

My town does happen to have 2ary &3iary treatment... but towns near have "accidents" that cause sewage release. I vote for politicians (on total record including environmental) -that fine/regulate those treatment center and expect much more than a slap on the hand. It doesn't always help but I try to do my part.

Perhaps if the CG and DNR could levy a percapita fine at 'accident' sites or send the polititians to the pokey something will happen. As I noted, 5000 for each offensie for a boater. Why is it OK for a town to have an accitent? We are on a well & septic. My grass adn woods grows well but it doesn't go to the lake.

OH one other good outcome from Zebra Muscles is they fix heavy metals in their shells.
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Old 06-01-2013, 19:02   #26
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Perhaps if the CG and DNR could levy a percapita fine at 'accident' sites or send the polititians to the pokey something will happen. As I noted, 5000 for each offensie for a boater. Why is it OK for a town to have an accitent? We are on a well & septic. My grass adn woods grows well but it doesn't go to the lake.

OH one other good outcome from Zebra Muscles is they fix heavy metals in their shells.

It agree that they need a per incident fine-
One time=high; next=way high; after= jail time. Here in CA, they are messing with the ocean that provides most of our oxygen and lots of food. Towns spew 1,000's of gallons and our boat has 2 holding tanks with 25 gallons (much of which is sea water from pumping) so not even close to equal. I don't want any mistakes on my boat either but we have to smack down those big guys!

Do the zebra mussels get affected by the heavy metals? If they were then removed they would take it with them. Interesting idea.
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Old 06-01-2013, 20:14   #27
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

Your not going to remove zebra mussles or their shells from the Lakes. They are everywhere. The heavy metal worries is, IMO, a bunch of crap anyway. You would have to live on an exclusive diet of GL fish to have any real effect.
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Old 06-01-2013, 21:24   #28
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

I don't like the non-natural heavy metals in the water.

There are plenty of people on welfare that could spend a day or two a week in the nice weather scraping shells off of places and removing them to a safe landfill.
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Old 06-01-2013, 21:58   #29
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

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I don't like the non-natural heavy metals in the water.

There are plenty of people on welfare that could spend a day or two a week in the nice weather scraping shells off of places and removing them to a safe landfill.
Not to be political, but I'd love to find a good job for welfare recipients also. But, that wouldn't be one of them. We don't have tides. You could effectively scrape about a foot down on "what"? The sand?

I don't know about Erie or Ontario but Michigan and Superior are very clean. 20 years ago you didn't really want to drink the water, now, it's ok.

People and businesses care about the environment. It's cleaning up, no worries.
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:22   #30
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Re: Great Lakes Environmental Assessment and Mapping (GLEAM) Project

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I don't know about the other's but Lake Michigan is as clean now as I've ever seen. It's the zebra mussles.

This is patently untrue and can be corroborated by hundreds of scientific articles on the internet. Illinois and Michigan beaches are among the dirtiest and polluted in the Great Lakes. We have two toxic sites within 10 miles of our marina (Waukegan Harbor and Illinois Beach State Park) and the beach at our marina has been permanently closed to swimming and is being used as a dog beach because they cannot control the excessive pollution. Man will continue to pollute to the point of extinction (as did the Mayans) unless restricted by laws and penalties. I am not a believer in Big Government . . . I am in favor of strict enforcement of pollution laws to protect the general good against Man's penchant for greed, selfishness and stupidity .
Natural Resources Defense Council ? The Earth?s Best Defense | NRDCwater/oceans/ttw/great-lakes.asp
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